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Rovers - He Or She?
Tman
post Jun 21 2005, 07:41 AM
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I'm still confused about the gender of Spirit and Oppy! What the consent about? If Spirit female (so I think) then make it sense to keep quiet about her age and make she younger biggrin.gif

No kidding! I would like to know which personal pronoun (she, her or he, his etc.) I have to use by Spirit's and Oppy's gender definitely? smile.gif


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dvandorn
post Jun 24 2005, 03:53 PM
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Very nice analysis, JRehling. I really enjoy the breadth of knowledge evinced by the contributors to this board.

I understand the argument that the Romance language use of gender is simply an arbitrary noun-classification system. And I admit that, when one sloppily uses multiple subjects and unclear sentence structures, such a classification system can help ease confusion.

I only have two remaining points.

One -- I was glad to hear you use the term "arbitrary," since that confirms my suspicion that there is, in fact, no rational basis for the assignation of gender identity in Romance languages.

Two -- I am a writer, and I have never had a problem crafting any message in English that avoids the issue of noun/pronoun confusion. You just have to keep your sentences simple -- it's not that difficult. Heck, sometimes you don't even have to keep your sentences simple, you just have to pay attention to your references. Now, if you want to say that an arbitrary set of noun classifications helps keep *poor* writers from descending into noun/pronoun confusion, I guess I would agree. But I would also say that, as a professional writer, I think poor writers should stick to other pursuits and allow us professionals (who know what we're doing) to craft important documents... wink.gif

Finally, I want to thank Richard for his contribution to this discussion. It's good to hear from someone who grew up with French as a first language. It's especially informative to me to hear that the French themselves, while they find the structures and protocols of their language to be far more natural than I might, still find some of the irrationalities amusing and, well -- irrational. I, for one, readily admit the irrationalities of English -- especially the emotional loading of English structures in which some unseen "they" are responsible for just about everything that happens. It was refreshing to hear someone fondly admit to the craziness of his own language...

Overall -- good discussion!

-the other Doug


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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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Posts in this topic
- Tman   Rovers - He Or She?   Jun 21 2005, 07:41 AM
- - Nix   Are they not both gals? Nico   Jun 21 2005, 07:43 AM
|- - dvandorn   Technically, of course, they're asexual, and t...   Jun 21 2005, 07:56 AM
- - djellison   Both girls imho Doug   Jun 21 2005, 08:29 AM
- - wyogold   QUOTE (Tman @ Jun 21 2005, 07:41 AM)No kiddin...   Jun 21 2005, 09:11 AM
|- - RedSky   QUOTE (wyogold @ Jun 21 2005, 04:11 AM)somebo...   Jun 21 2005, 10:05 PM
- - Tman   If I check between, when looking intimately, I wou...   Jun 21 2005, 09:31 AM
- - mike   They're both genderless. Until we create mach...   Jun 21 2005, 05:03 PM
|- - Deimos   QUOTE (mike @ Jun 21 2005, 05:03 PM)They...   Jun 21 2005, 06:11 PM
|- - dvandorn   Exactly -- just try telling the French that someth...   Jun 21 2005, 07:02 PM
|- - Phillip   Well, as a French-American, I must point out that ...   Jun 21 2005, 07:23 PM
||- - mike   Say that the rovers are male or female if you like...   Jun 21 2005, 07:36 PM
||- - dvandorn   Yes, English got the concept of neuter pronouns fr...   Jun 21 2005, 07:55 PM
||- - mike   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 21 2005, 11:55 AM)Oppy,...   Jun 21 2005, 09:16 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 21 2005, 08:02 PM)And y...   Jun 22 2005, 05:58 AM
|- - Borek   QUOTE (helvick @ Jun 22 2005, 05:58 AM)Just w...   Jun 24 2005, 10:56 AM
- - djellison   Moving a few posts   Jun 21 2005, 10:00 PM
- - hendric   Mike, Oh come on, anything that 1. Stops talk...   Jun 22 2005, 02:42 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (dvandorn)But in a very real sense, these pl...   Jun 22 2005, 05:57 AM
- - djellison   Yup - Vessels of exploration are always female D...   Jun 22 2005, 07:18 AM
- - edstrick   Would it then be: Ms Opportunity and Ms Spirit? ...   Jun 22 2005, 07:31 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Jun 22 2005, 07:31 AM)Would...   Jun 22 2005, 08:33 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 21 2005 @ 08:02 PM)Ame...   Jun 22 2005, 08:48 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jun 22 2005, 01:48 A...   Jun 22 2005, 05:33 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jun 22 2005, 06:33 PM)...ge...   Jun 22 2005, 08:54 PM
|- - JRehling   There is a wide variety in terms of how compr...   Jun 22 2005, 09:39 PM
|- - helvick   Nice response. The specific "choice" o...   Jun 22 2005, 10:16 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (helvick @ Jun 22 2005, 03:16 PM)For th...   Jun 22 2005, 10:28 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jun 22 2005, 11:28 PM)Doug ...   Jun 22 2005, 10:36 PM
- - djellison   Hands up - I actually got complaints about this st...   Jun 22 2005, 09:07 AM
- - edstrick   Trigaux said "..... Some among the greatest s...   Jun 22 2005, 09:24 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Jun 22 2005, 09:24 AM)Decad...   Jun 22 2005, 05:19 PM
- - dvandorn   I'm sorry, I guess I haven't stated my poi...   Jun 23 2005, 04:55 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 23 2005, 04:55 AM)As a ...   Jun 23 2005, 07:01 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 22 2005, 09:55 PM)I...   Jun 23 2005, 09:20 AM
- - dvandorn   Very nice analysis, JRehling. I really enjoy the ...   Jun 24 2005, 03:53 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 24 2005, 08:53 AM)Very ...   Jun 24 2005, 05:30 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jun 24 2005, 12:30 PM)The b...   Jun 24 2005, 06:46 PM
- - tty   Be glad you don't have to learn Swedish. The u...   Jun 24 2005, 08:31 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   what I think is that languages are historical buil...   Jun 25 2005, 06:49 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jun 24 2005, 11:49 P...   Jun 25 2005, 07:30 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (JRehling @ Jun 25 2005, 02:30 PM)...Of...   Jun 25 2005, 09:02 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 25 2005, 02:02 PM)The I...   Jun 25 2005, 10:15 PM
- - Pavel   I don't know about Eskimo, but English has lot...   Jul 4 2005, 11:40 PM


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