[X] My Assistant

[djellison]

I'd like to see peoples thoughts regarding ESA's website, it's press 'accesability', it's image release protocol etc.

What does ESA do that's good?

What does ESA do that's bad?

What does NASA do that ESA SHOULD do?

What does NASA do that ESA SHOULDNT do?

What benefits might there be etc etc

I'm trying to gauge the 'educated' public opinion on the matter. Please say, if you reply, which country you're from.

Im going to add a poll as well.

Also - please comment on specific features of NASA public relations and press activity that you find superb, and htose that you find terrible.

Doug

[dvandorn]

Any word as to whether or not MEX got an image of Phoenix during the fireball phase?

Wait, don't tell me, let me guess -- ESA will hold on to the pics for about six months and then release them, trumpeting how their spacecraft took the *only extant anywhere* images of another spacecraft landing on another world...?

After all, gotta give a little time for everyone to forget about the MRO pic, or their little lie... er, I mean, their PR effort, won't go over as well... *sigh*...

-the other Doug

[JonClarke]

Wait, don't tell me, let me guess -- ESA will hold on to the pics for about six months and then release them, trumpeting how their spacecraft took the *only extant anywhere* images of another spacecraft landing on another world...?

After all, gotta give a little time for everyone to forget about the MRO pic, or their little lie... er, I mean, their PR effort, won't go over as well... *sigh*...

Irrelevant, off topic, unhelpful, unnecessary, unfunny, and untrue

I thought UMSF had outgrown this sort of childishness. I was wrong. I'll be back in a couple more years to see if things have improved by then.

Very sadly

Jon

[djellison]

Irrelevant, off topic, unhelpful, unnecessary, unfunny, and untrue

It was relevant, on topic, funny and true.

The HiRISE image was out after 17 hours. We are now nearly 36 hours after landing. ESA have not released their efforts with HRSC or Spicam, nor even passed comment on the attempt itself. This is typical ESA, this is what we predicted ESA would do, this is not funny, it's tragic. And whilst, yes, there are some ESA events that are not worth continuing to talk about, each time ESA fails to deliver in the way that it should, it IS worthy of mention. I am going to conferences and making as loud a noise as I can that ESA's outreach efforts are poor, especially on MEX and VEX, and they have been guilty in the past of claiming credit for things that are not an ESA discovery nor a world first. I will continue to fight for ESA to change that, and let people here continue to make loud noises, until something changes

The images from Phoenix were on the web before the UHF pass even finished. I'm looking at images from Saturn taken yesterday. ESA dragging its feet is not an acceptable situation and every event where that becomes more obvious is worthy of mention and criticism. If that's not your particular type of Vodka, no one is forcing to you visit or read posts here. Justified pertinent criticism of ESA's outreach efforts will continue to be a valid subject for discussion at UMSF.

[centsworth_II]

It was relevant, on topic, funny and true.

Why would you want to burn your bridges before they're built. There is a respectful, mature way to voice objections and make suggestions, and then there is what unfortunately is becoming the UMSF way, with regards to ESA PR.

ESA PR should be a serious concern addressed here at UMSF, but turning it into a running joke is no way to be serious about it.

[djellison]

ESA PR should be a serious concern addressed here at UMSF, but turning it into a running joke is no way to be serious about it.

Serious enough take three weeks off work, sacrificing my holidays to go to exceptionally busy press conferences, working my fingers off, finding these people and speaking them?

I take this issue very very seriously. The state of outreach within ESA is not 'funny'. It's a joke. Not something to laugh at - something tragic. What I was describing as funny was dvandorn post. If you read my post, you will see I describe the situation at ESA as tragic and worth fighting to get changed.

That's what I'm doing. I'm fighting to get it changed. I'm taking it more seriously than you can possibly imagine. If you would rather I did something else with my time than trying to convince ESA and its partners to be a more transparent, open and public friendly agency, then let me know and I'll pull my paper from Europlanet, forget spending a week in Glasgow for IAC and just have a two weeks on the beach in Spain instead.

I'm going to move several posts from this thread into another and this is not the place for this debate.

Let me make this point that highlights the entire issue brilliantly.

One guy, sat at home, using his spare time and some free resources like blogspot, flickr etc, has produced more information, more excitement, more passion, more interest and more educational content about European space science than the whole of ESA's own science program outreach.

Ustrax's efforts are frankly astonishing. That they make ESA's outreach pale into insignificance is shocking and unacceptable. I will continue to bitch, moan, scream, cry and laugh about it - until it changes.

Doug

[centsworth_II]

I take this issue very very seriously.

I don't doubt that. UMSF is a ground-breaking web site. The best, for following the various unmanned missions. You have worked hard to get and keep it that way. In making this web site the best at what it does, you have squashed political debate, discussion of "alternative", non-scientific theories, and even discussion of alternative scientific theories (ie: impact surge). You should consider squashing scornful ridicule where constructive criticism would be more productive.

I don't see how you expect to work hard with people in ESA to get better outreach, then ridicule and laugh at them on UMSF (or allow others to), and get anywhere. But that's just my two cents.

I would be interested in Ustrax's take. I don't recall seeing him join in on the nastier ESA bash sessions.

[djellison]

I don't see how you expect to work hard with people in ESA to get better outreach, then ridicule and laugh at them on UMSF (or allow others to), and get anywhere. But that's just my two cents.

I don't see how we can expect to get anywhere without highlighting just how pathetic and laughable the current situation is. That's my pence. Not to open an old wound - but the Rosetta Mars flyby issue literally reduced me to tears. There genuinely not words to describe how disgusting that situation was (and continues to be) Sometimes, the only way to come to terms with how idiotic and frankly, hurtfull, a situation is, is to laugh.

Doug