My Assistant
Deep Impact Realtime Thread |
Jul 4 2005, 04:52 AM
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Founder ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Chairman Posts: 14457 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
Well - impactor TCM 1 went well - <0.3% error and it's on course for a nominal impact time. PI has suggested that the comet is Banana shaped and we're going to hit the end of it which looks a little triangular
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| Guest_BruceMoomaw_* |
Jul 5 2005, 01:48 AM
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Guests |
Actually, the scientific seriousness of the HRI focusing problem has been greatly diminished by the other problem: the fact that the ejecta cloud utterly hid the impactor crater. When you read A'Hearn's and Belton's original article setting forth the science rationale for this mission ( http://deepimpact.jpl.nasa.gov/science/cospar-ms.pdf ) , they DO emphasize looking for layering in the crater walls as one of its most important justifications -- and it's precisely for that reason that they wanted such a very high-powered HRI with a top resolution of "1 meter/pixel", since the layering structure may well be that fine.
Well, of course, the obscuring ejecta cloud has totally ruined that scientific goal for the mission, and would have in any case. And since the Impactor Camera imaged the approach side of Tempel every bit as well as a perfectly focused HRI would have (its resolution and viewfield at 140 km distance was the same as the HRI's at its own minimum distance of 700 km, and at that point the Impactor Camera was still totally non-sandblasted), virtually the only thing we ended up actually losing from the HRI problem was somewhat sharper photos of the OTHER side of the nucleus. Moreover, when you compare the deconvoluted HRI photos of the impact itself with those from the MRI ( http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/deepimpa...a/pia02123.html and http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/deepimpa...a/PIA02131.html ), it's clear that deconvolution -- even if it didn't completely solve the HRI problem -- has still allowed the creation of photos maybe 3 times sharper than those from the MRI (as opposed to the originally hoped-for 5 times). But that ejecta cloud -- whose power to blot out the impact crater was always a very strong possibility, even if it hadn't been remotely as big as it actually turned out to be -- raises the question: just how good, really, was the science rationale for this mission? (Hawaii's Jeffrey Bell, playing his usual role as the Skeleton at the Feast, has been raising this point in E-mails to me for years.) It's now clear that, if we really wanted to study the comet's surface layering, it might have been a far more dependable technique to simply put a radar sounder on the craft -- which would also have covered a vastly wider area on the surface, perhaps incuding sites of activity, and could have been used on more than one comet. (The sounder's antenna could have been put in the "shadow zone" protected by the craft's forward dust shield.) Moreover, by eliminating the great mass and cost of the Impactor, we could also easily have added gas and dust-impact mass spectrometers a la CONTOUR and Stardust. In short, this mission -- for less cost -- could have instead been a vastly improved version of the multi-comet CONTOUR mission. Just about the only thing we actually got out of Deep Impact that such an alternative mission couldn't have provided was the data the impact may have provided on the chemical composition of really deeply buried subsurface ices -- and was this enough to compensate for the other stuff we passed up? This returns me to something I've wondered about for years: just how did Deep Impact actually get selected? Its selection was a total surprise to me; it muscled ahead of other Discovery finalists -- Aladdin, and a VESAT or VESPER Venus orbiter -- which were not only finalists this time but had been during the previous selection, too (which D.I. never had been). Is it possible that Dan Goldin intervened and ordered the selection of Deep Impact as yet another of his harebrained NASA PR stunts with questionable science return (Mars Pathfinder, with its cute but scientifically mediocre rover and not-very-efficient airbag system; the cancelled 2003 miniature Mars Airplane; the proposed all-girl Shuttle flight; the cancellation of a sensible 2003 Pluto probe in favor of a far more difficult and technically sophisticated early Europa Orbiter, with the highly predictable result thaat we got neither)? I already know that NASA HQ virtually ordered the selection of Phoenix in the supposedly "independent" 2007 Mars Scout selection; we were explicitly told so at the first Mars Roadmap meeting. |
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djellison Deep Impact Realtime Thread Jul 4 2005, 04:52 AM
djellison A rather rough and ready HRI picture on NASA TV - ... Jul 4 2005, 05:09 AM
djellison TCM 2 is in progress - estimated to be 40ish secon... Jul 4 2005, 05:19 AM
hendric Sounds like someone was concerned about microradia... Jul 4 2005, 05:20 AM
hendric Somebody just got up and ran off..."I told yo... Jul 4 2005, 05:21 AM
djellison I assume this is the calculated pointing error for... Jul 4 2005, 05:22 AM
hendric Figures...Nasa TV is showing images of the HRI. ... Jul 4 2005, 05:23 AM
deglr6328 Did I get that right? They're doing (near) rea... Jul 4 2005, 05:24 AM
hendric Yep. On their laptops, no less. I guess Mike... Jul 4 2005, 05:28 AM
djellison Yup "Two days"...lmfao - 60 seconds
Do... Jul 4 2005, 05:31 AM
hendric holy...I thought the tv camera defocused, but thos... Jul 4 2005, 05:36 AM
djellison For those with access - Sky News is carrying NTV a... Jul 4 2005, 05:36 AM
djellison Last TCM calculations suggest again, 2ish m/sec
D... Jul 4 2005, 05:38 AM
deglr6328 Final ITM (ITM 3) occurs in <3 min. As I unders... Jul 4 2005, 05:39 AM
hendric "Near real time" my butt. The Image Vie... Jul 4 2005, 05:44 AM
Bob Shaw Good images of the nucleus - looks like a bent Enc... Jul 4 2005, 06:07 AM
Bob Shaw A screengrab of the nucleus: Jul 4 2005, 06:15 AM
djellison FInal burn manouver complete - accurate to within ... Jul 4 2005, 05:45 AM
deglr6328 Final TCM burn error less than 1/4 of a %!... Jul 4 2005, 05:45 AM
djellison 10 seconds to go Jul 4 2005, 05:51 AM
djellison Loss of Signal Jul 4 2005, 05:52 AM
djellison WOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo - the pictures
Doug Jul 4 2005, 05:52 AM
djellison Wow - this is like ranger - amazing images coming... Jul 4 2005, 05:53 AM
deglr6328 WOW! lovely!! they look far closer t... Jul 4 2005, 05:53 AM
hendric Is that a crack?? My bet is for rubble pile!... Jul 4 2005, 05:55 AM
djellison Is it wrong that I was celebrating WAYYY before th... Jul 4 2005, 05:57 AM
deglr6328 It's perfect! Perfectly centered in the im... Jul 4 2005, 05:59 AM
alan "doing very well for a spaceraft about to be ... Jul 4 2005, 06:03 AM
lyford Doh - party's over here now.... Jul 4 2005, 06:03 AM
djellison Just taking photographs of my TV here - with Sky N... Jul 4 2005, 06:04 AM
lyford more here
http://www.scotsons-shack.com/dimages.h... Jul 4 2005, 06:05 AM
lyford kitt peak working now
Kitt Peak Live Feed Jul 4 2005, 06:07 AM
hendric Deep Impact II to hit an Asteroid? Jul 4 2005, 06:10 AM
deglr6328 Sub-meter res images just before impact seem to sh... Jul 4 2005, 06:13 AM
hendric Consdering they're compensating for a really l... Jul 4 2005, 06:14 AM
djellison MRI of the impact.
I just have to go 'BOOOOoo... Jul 4 2005, 06:20 AM
Bob Shaw Medium resolution image of the impact: Jul 4 2005, 06:25 AM
Bob Shaw Doug:
Gonna send the Deep Impact Team a 'Gold... Jul 4 2005, 06:27 AM
Sunspot Any reports of observations from the ground? Jul 4 2005, 06:21 AM
lyford mirror of the pre impact animation from kitt peak
... Jul 4 2005, 06:27 AM
Bob Shaw The final flyby picture before the 'hiding fro... Jul 4 2005, 06:32 AM
garybeau The best 4th of July fireworks I ever witnessed. C... Jul 4 2005, 06:37 AM
djellison The realtime image pages are healthily updated, bu... Jul 4 2005, 06:59 AM
volcanopele Try:
http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~perry/image... Jul 4 2005, 07:01 AM
alan impact images now available on near real time imag... Jul 4 2005, 07:37 AM
Sunspot http://www.spaceflightnow.com/deepimpact/050704fau... Jul 4 2005, 07:55 AM
Jyril Faulkes Telescope images can be found here. Jul 4 2005, 07:56 AM
deglr6328 Pre and post (~20 minutes) images from the Faulkes... Jul 4 2005, 08:04 AM
jaredGalen What time GMT is the press conference on?
I don... Jul 4 2005, 08:09 AM
dvandorn Now it's off of "Momentarily" and ba... Jul 4 2005, 08:11 AM
jaredGalen QUOTE (jaredGalen @ Jul 4 2005, 09:09 AM)Edit... Jul 4 2005, 08:12 AM
jaredGalen WOOOHOOO!!! Jul 4 2005, 08:13 AM
jaredGalen Wow, more hits than Cassini and MER combined!
... Jul 4 2005, 08:15 AM
Sunspot I think it should have started 10 minutes ago.
... Jul 4 2005, 08:11 AM
Jyril It should start at any time now. They're havin... Jul 4 2005, 08:11 AM
Jyril Here's a blog from Planetary Society for those... Jul 4 2005, 08:26 AM
Tman Someone did a nice animation on web:
http://pla... Jul 4 2005, 08:50 AM
abalone Still image from impactor. Impact point is in cent... Jul 4 2005, 09:08 AM
Decepticon Did anyone get the reaction of the Deep Impact Tea... Jul 4 2005, 12:03 PM
Marcel Before and after by Hubble
http://deepimpact.jpl.... Jul 4 2005, 12:52 PM
ilbasso I heard the rep from ESA say that Rosetta was also... Jul 4 2005, 01:55 PM
Tman There is an QT movie that shows most approach so f... Jul 4 2005, 03:30 PM
volcanopele QUOTE (Tman @ Jul 4 2005, 08:30 AM)There is a... Jul 4 2005, 03:52 PM
djellison It may be that it started to tumble / wobble with ... Jul 4 2005, 03:35 PM
Jyril QUOTE (djellison @ Jul 4 2005, 06:35 PM)It ma... Jul 4 2005, 03:47 PM
Jyril The hubble image posted earlier has been updated w... Jul 4 2005, 03:45 PM
volcanopele http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~perry/images/impac... Jul 4 2005, 04:04 PM
Tman wow, you found likely the right impact spot! I... Jul 4 2005, 04:25 PM
jaredGalen
Looks Like your spot on.
I overlayed the closeup ... Jul 4 2005, 05:59 PM
jaredGalen In fact the last one seems to fit in too here.
Thi... Jul 4 2005, 06:11 PM
Decepticon Cool animations!
This is a great press confe... Jul 4 2005, 06:24 PM
djellison 1600GMT Press Conf Highlights
Web Hits : Last 24... Jul 4 2005, 06:25 PM
Decepticon Are raw images available yet? Jul 4 2005, 06:31 PM
alan Found a couple more matches in Tman's image Jul 4 2005, 06:36 PM
jaredGalen QUOTE (alan @ Jul 4 2005, 07:36 PM)Found a co... Jul 4 2005, 06:48 PM
Sunspot It doesn't look like there are any plans for a... Jul 4 2005, 06:48 PM
MizarKey I loved the animated sequence showing the crater f... Jul 4 2005, 06:49 PM
volcanopele I'm still finding it hard to believe think of ... Jul 4 2005, 07:01 PM
Phil Stooke Here I've tinkered with the brightness to see ... Jul 4 2005, 09:10 PM
MiniTES Let me get this straight: they're not sure if ... Jul 4 2005, 10:06 PM
john_s QUOTE (MiniTES @ Jul 4 2005, 10:06 PM)Let me ... Jul 4 2005, 10:13 PM
MiniTES QUOTE (john_s @ Jul 4 2005, 10:13 PM)I don... Jul 4 2005, 10:20 PM
MiniTES Trying to make sure I understand the geometry of t... Jul 4 2005, 11:35 PM
Decepticon I though we would get better lookback images for m... Jul 5 2005, 12:10 AM
Phil Stooke MiniTES, the brightest spot in the lookback image ... Jul 5 2005, 12:40 AM
tedstryk Were the images taken after impact monochrome or m... Jul 5 2005, 02:23 AM
MiniTES QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 5 2005, 01:48 AM)...... Jul 5 2005, 02:38 AM
BruceMoomaw To Ted: both the HRI and MRI images were multispec... Jul 5 2005, 02:40 AM
MiniTES QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 5 2005, 02:40 AM)To ... Jul 5 2005, 02:46 AM
MiniTES I also think NASA could have milked the publicity ... Jul 5 2005, 03:07 AM
BruceMoomaw To "Mini-TES": actually, your second sou... Jul 5 2005, 04:19 AM
BruceMoomaw As for an extended mission to a second comet; I ca... Jul 5 2005, 04:21 AM
BruceMoomaw And as for the impact being precisely on July 4 (w... Jul 5 2005, 04:29 AM
BruceMoomaw And here, finally, is the only additional data I w... Jul 5 2005, 05:14 AM
BruceMoomaw And here's a third one, which is useful in bei... Jul 5 2005, 05:23 AM
slinted Bruce:
The pds site with the calibration data has... Jul 5 2005, 05:59 AM
BruceMoomaw Splendid! Thanks. Jul 5 2005, 03:59 PM
Tman Maybe you want to get a deeper look at the impact ... Jul 5 2005, 05:02 PM
alan What small mound? Jul 5 2005, 05:17 PM![]() ![]() |
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