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How Much Driving Time?
Cugel
post Jul 18 2005, 04:03 PM
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Does anybody know how much time Oppy actually can spend on driving on a single sol?

I remember that when she travelled from Eagle to Endurance crater it was no more than 1.5 hours per sol (or so), due to power limitations. I have no idea what the current power situation and battery status of Oppy allows these days...
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edstrick
post Jul 19 2005, 08:36 AM
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Every time you wish for a solar panel cleaning system, consider 1.) weight, 2.) complexity, and ask: "Which scientific instrument on these rovers would I trade in return for the mass and volume for a dust-removal system?".
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Nirgal
post Jul 19 2005, 09:08 AM
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QUOTE (edstrick @ Jul 19 2005, 10:36 AM)
Every time you wish for a solar panel cleaning system, consider 1.) weight, 2.) complexity
*


then what about a simple "windscreen wiper" ?, lightweight (maybe 0.1 percent of rover mass), negligible complexity and quite effective smile.gif
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dvandorn
post Jul 19 2005, 09:55 AM
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A "windscreen wiper" (or "windshield wiper," as we Americans call it) woud end up, over time, scratching the coatings of the solar cells so badly that they would lose effectiveness. (Try tossing fine rock dust on your windscreen and clearing it with the wipers -- you end up with thousands of tiny scratches in the glass. And that's glass, which is more resistant to such scratching than the materials from which solar cells are made.)

You would also have to design your solar cell surfaces so that they have no cracks or crevices, and nothing that protrudes up above them -- they would have to be very flat, smooth surfaces. Ever seen a solar cell array? They're not all that smooth -- and making them smooth would probably add weight, too.

I think the best dust-clearing device you could come up with would be a small compressor that takes in Martian air, compresses it into a bottle, and (when you need a cleaning) is commanded to blow the air out through vents positioned to duct it across the arrays. Or perhaps just a bottle of compressed CO2 instead of the compressor. A compressor would let you clean your arrays as many times as you want over the lifetime of the vehicle, while a pre-loaded CO2 bottle would only be good for "X" number of cleanings.

But Doug is right -- such a system would likely weigh as much as one of the major sensor packages you want to put on your probe. So you either have to 1) accept the sacrifice of one of your sensors, or 2) increase the mass you can land on the surface by *just* enough to include your cleaning system. Since the second option makes the whole mission more expensive, you'll probably end up getting stuck with the first.

And while you're deliberating on solar cell array cleaning systems, you have to face up to the fact that any solar-powered Martian lander could have its power cut down to below-survival levels by a planet-wide dust storm, whether or not you can clean the arrays. If a really energetic global dust storm occurs and the atmospheric opacity increases beyond a given level for too many sols, a solar-powered probe may simply die. And you've sacrificed your sensor for nothing.

So I'm inclined to agree with Doug -- for longer-duration missions, RTGs are the way to go. For shorter-duration missions, solar power without array cleaning is acceptable, since you're going to get your primary science return very early on. Besides, it seems like Mars is willing to provide enough wind to clean off solar arrays at frequent enough intervals to make extended missions for even these short-duration probes more likely.

There are ways of "tweaking" solar-powered probes, though, to try and get the longest life out them. For example, I believe the MERs use tiny radioisotopic heaters within their main "boxes" to keep the electronics and batteries comfortably warm. Those provide heat without using electricty, thus reducing power consumption needs. The MERs only have electric heaters in places where you can't easily use a passive heating system, like on the IDD. I'm sure there are other ways tweak solar-powered landers to enhance their lifetimes that are both easier to implement and weigh a lot less than solar array cleaning systems.

-the other Doug


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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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Posts in this topic
- Cugel   How Much Driving Time?   Jul 18 2005, 04:03 PM
- - djellison   About the same - perhaps a little less. Remember ...   Jul 18 2005, 04:17 PM
- - RNeuhaus   I guess that the driving speed will be much slower...   Jul 18 2005, 05:04 PM
|- - helvick   Peak theoretical insolation would have been around...   Jul 18 2005, 05:36 PM
|- - Nirgal   there was a very interesting analysis of the Rover...   Jul 18 2005, 07:35 PM
- - Cugel   Thanks all! So, if I got this right, with nuc...   Jul 18 2005, 09:22 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (Cugel @ Jul 18 2005, 04:22 PM)Thanks a...   Jul 18 2005, 09:30 PM
|- - Nirgal   QUOTE (Cugel @ Jul 18 2005, 11:22 PM)Well, I ...   Jul 19 2005, 12:01 AM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (Nirgal @ Jul 19 2005, 12:01 AM)it woul...   Jul 19 2005, 07:16 AM
|- - Jeff7   QUOTE (Marcel @ Jul 19 2005, 02:16 AM)Let our...   Jul 19 2005, 12:25 PM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Jul 19 2005, 12:25 PM)If the c...   Jul 19 2005, 12:51 PM
|- - abalone   QUOTE (Marcel @ Jul 19 2005, 11:51 PM)maybe a...   Jul 19 2005, 01:17 PM
|- - um3k   QUOTE (Marcel @ Jul 19 2005, 08:51 AM)By the ...   Jul 19 2005, 02:49 PM
- - mike   It would be nice if people at large weren't so...   Jul 18 2005, 10:15 PM
|- - jaredGalen   Todays flight director report mentions that the po...   Jul 18 2005, 11:38 PM
- - djellison   Basically the mass, volume and money spent on a sy...   Jul 19 2005, 07:54 AM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (djellison @ Jul 19 2005, 07:54 AM)Basi...   Jul 19 2005, 08:22 AM
- - djellison   A combo of RTG's and Solar Arrays doesnt make ...   Jul 19 2005, 08:32 AM
- - edstrick   Every time you wish for a solar panel cleaning sys...   Jul 19 2005, 08:36 AM
|- - Nirgal   QUOTE (edstrick @ Jul 19 2005, 10:36 AM)Every...   Jul 19 2005, 09:08 AM
|- - dvandorn   A "windscreen wiper" (or "windshiel...   Jul 19 2005, 09:55 AM
|- - Marcel   Right, i agree on almost everything said. Except: ...   Jul 19 2005, 10:07 AM
|- - dvandorn   It's not necessarily linear -- the easiest way...   Jul 19 2005, 10:48 AM
- - edstrick   "Simple".... Only if the configuration o...   Jul 19 2005, 09:38 AM
- - edstrick   AMEN-squared with DVandorn's comments. The ro...   Jul 19 2005, 10:54 AM
|- - Marcel   We were talking about trying to find a simple, pos...   Jul 19 2005, 11:31 AM
|- - akuo   QUOTE (Marcel @ Jul 19 2005, 11:31 AM)It...   Jul 19 2005, 11:47 AM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (akuo @ Jul 19 2005, 11:47 AM)Yes. The ...   Jul 19 2005, 12:08 PM
- - djellison   Are you suggesting shot-blasting the solar arrays ...   Jul 19 2005, 11:51 AM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (djellison @ Jul 19 2005, 11:51 AM)Are ...   Jul 19 2005, 12:15 PM
- - Analyst   QUOTE If the computer animation of the rover's...   Jul 19 2005, 12:33 PM
- - djellison   And look at the power trend - essentially sustaina...   Jul 19 2005, 01:18 PM
|- - AoftheN   A simple dust removal mechanism maybe isn't su...   Jul 19 2005, 01:30 PM
- - djellison   To enable the IDD to reach the whole of the solar ...   Jul 19 2005, 01:36 PM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (djellison @ Jul 19 2005, 01:36 PM)To e...   Jul 19 2005, 01:54 PM
|- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE (Marcel @ Jul 19 2005, 06:54 AM)...It m...   Jul 19 2005, 02:15 PM
- - Analyst   If there is no sun at all (in northern winter), yo...   Jul 19 2005, 02:12 PM
- - Bill Harris   QUOTE it will accumulate dust anyway: just like si...   Jul 19 2005, 02:26 PM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Jul 19 2005, 02:26 PM)Ar...   Jul 19 2005, 02:35 PM
- - RNeuhaus   Interesting discussions about different options on...   Jul 19 2005, 02:49 PM
|- - rschare   Isn't this all kind of a moot point? I thou...   Jul 19 2005, 05:13 PM
|- - helvick   The "To Clean or Not To Clean" discussio...   Jul 19 2005, 07:03 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (helvick @ Jul 19 2005, 07:03 PM)Phoeni...   Jul 20 2005, 12:40 PM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Jul 20 2005, 12:40 PM)True....   Jul 20 2005, 12:58 PM
|- - um3k   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Jul 20 2005, 08:40 AM)True....   Jul 20 2005, 03:23 PM
- - glennwsmith   I didn't intend to jump into this discussion a...   Jul 20 2005, 05:35 AM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (glennwsmith @ Jul 20 2005, 05:35 AM)I ...   Jul 20 2005, 06:06 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (glennwsmith @ Jul 20 2005, 05:35 AM)At...   Jul 20 2005, 07:14 AM
- - edstrick   The dust is finer than talcum powder, way way too ...   Jul 20 2005, 08:05 AM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (edstrick @ Jul 20 2005, 08:05 AM)The d...   Jul 20 2005, 09:27 AM
|- - Jeff7   QUOTE (Marcel @ Jul 20 2005, 04:27 AM)I don...   Jul 20 2005, 03:39 PM
- - djellison   3360 Whrs - is a lot more than MER Doug   Jul 20 2005, 09:28 AM
- - RNeuhaus   About how much time driving will have MERx? No one...   Jul 20 2005, 05:16 PM
|- - ToSeek   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Jul 20 2005, 05:16 PM)Oppy ...   Jul 20 2005, 08:14 PM
||- - um3k   QUOTE (ToSeek @ Jul 20 2005, 04:14 PM)Not rea...   Jul 20 2005, 08:26 PM
|||- - Jeff7   QUOTE (um3k @ Jul 20 2005, 03:26 PM)That soun...   Jul 21 2005, 03:34 PM
||- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (ToSeek @ Jul 20 2005, 03:14 PM)Not rea...   Jul 20 2005, 08:35 PM
||- - tty   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Jul 20 2005, 10:35 PM)7) wh...   Jul 20 2005, 09:04 PM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Jul 20 2005, 05:16 PM)I thi...   Jul 21 2005, 01:43 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (Marcel @ Jul 21 2005, 08:43 AM)What an...   Jul 21 2005, 06:55 PM
- - Burmese   The rovers are funded thru September 2006 (just pa...   Jul 20 2005, 05:49 PM
- - mike   I think the rovers will last forever. Go on, prov...   Jul 20 2005, 07:38 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (mike @ Jul 20 2005, 02:38 PM)I think t...   Jul 20 2005, 07:48 PM
- - tty   A note on the dangerous RTG's. They are pretty...   Jul 20 2005, 08:32 PM
- - edstrick   Um3k asked, regarding Phoenix: "They will at ...   Jul 21 2005, 07:46 AM
- - um3k   Thank you for your reply, edstrick. It was very in...   Jul 21 2005, 02:29 PM
- - Gonzz   From the Steven Sqyres update: "Oh yeah, and...   Jul 22 2005, 06:51 AM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (Gonzz @ Jul 22 2005, 06:51 AM)From the...   Jul 22 2005, 07:10 AM
- - edstrick   " So we are speculating what is the weakest p...   Jul 22 2005, 09:19 AM
- - Burmese   I see Steve's thoughts on the scenery in Merid...   Jul 22 2005, 12:55 PM
- - Bob Shaw   An interesting .PDF paper on the design criteria f...   Aug 17 2005, 08:42 PM


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