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Big Tno Discovery
SFJCody
post Jul 29 2005, 08:03 AM
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mpml/message/15111
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dvandorn
post Aug 1 2005, 05:48 PM
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Don't delude yourselves, guys -- there is a far larger percentage of the world's population out there who are terrified by the increasing complexity we can now see in the Universe, than are awe-struck and delighted.

One of the reasons so many people in this world retreat into incredibly narrow and limiting, but very well-defined, roles and world-views is because facing up to how complex the world *really* is scares the living daylights out of them.

Since scientists and like-minded individuals rarely, if ever, have to deal with those people in any context other than the extremely mundane, we tend to forget that they're out there. But they are, and they outnumber us hundreds to one. (Note that you'll rarely see one of these people at a lecture by an astrophysicist -- except perhaps to demonstrate against the "relentless march of science" as if it's a bad thing, or loudly proclaim that "your science is all false becasue my god told me so." Just Google up some discussions about Creationism and its teaching in American public schools, if you don't believe me.)

Not that we need, as a culture or as individuals, to hide from the ever-more-complex Universe that is unfolding before us. Just that we need to understand that a vast majority of the human populace is irrational and fears this trend towards complexity-beyond-their-ability-to-understand, and that we need to take that at least somewhat into account when we design classification systems.

(Of course, there is always that relatively small percentage of scientists who *glory* in making their classification systems as complex and unapproachable as possible, so that the average person out there will confuse the system with magic, and confuse the scientist with a magician... but those ego-maniacal scientests tend to be few and far between. I think most of them work for ESA, though... *sigh*...)

-the other Doug


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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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Posts in this topic
- SFJCody   Big Tno Discovery   Jul 29 2005, 08:03 AM
- - mike   Planet X, or perhaps Rama I.   Jul 29 2005, 08:17 AM
- - slinted   Interestingly enough, it had already been found by...   Jul 29 2005, 09:16 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   Hmmm... ...a candidate for a post-Pluto encounter,...   Jul 29 2005, 09:55 AM
- - TheChemist   BBC article : Distant object found orbiting Sun   Jul 29 2005, 11:52 AM
- - volcanopele   While K40506A/2003 EL61 now appears to be smaller ...   Jul 29 2005, 09:55 PM
- - Sunspot   WOW............when will there be an official anno...   Jul 29 2005, 10:15 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (Sunspot @ Jul 29 2005, 03:15 PM)WOW......   Jul 30 2005, 12:58 AM
|- - odave   The article quotes Brown as saying it will be ...   Jul 30 2005, 01:32 AM
- - Jyril   That's not all! There are third large KBO...   Jul 29 2005, 11:29 PM
- - Decepticon   Is the object at it's closest approach to the ...   Jul 30 2005, 03:20 AM
- - Decepticon   http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/050729_new_p...   Jul 30 2005, 03:22 AM
- - remcook   Methane on the surface as well...another frozen-ou...   Jul 30 2005, 11:28 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   According to the NY Times, it's nowhere near p...   Jul 30 2005, 11:42 AM
|- - dilo   In a previous thread, few months ago, I proposed a...   Jul 30 2005, 01:10 PM
|- - Rob Pinnegar   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 30 2005, 05:42 AM)Pe...   Jul 30 2005, 03:32 PM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 30 2005, 11:42 AM)Pe...   Jul 30 2005, 04:09 PM
- - Myran   Bruce. Just wait until they have found a thousand ...   Jul 30 2005, 12:37 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Myran @ Jul 30 2005, 12:37 PM)Bruce. J...   Jul 30 2005, 01:52 PM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (Myran @ Jul 30 2005, 12:37 PM)Bruce. J...   Jul 30 2005, 02:03 PM
- - Sunspot   Any idea what the dates would have been for the la...   Jul 30 2005, 02:22 PM
- - alan   about 1700, roughly magnitude 14.5 next about 2250   Jul 30 2005, 03:04 PM
- - Decepticon   With all these discovers which web page has a list...   Jul 30 2005, 03:52 PM
|- - alan   QUOTE (Decepticon @ Jul 30 2005, 03:52 PM)Wit...   Jul 30 2005, 05:34 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE Alan Stern said: That day will come, in this...   Jul 30 2005, 04:02 PM
- - gpurcell   I wonder if a size+orbital mechanics might not be ...   Jul 30 2005, 05:24 PM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (gpurcell @ Jul 30 2005, 05:24 PM)I won...   Jul 30 2005, 07:08 PM
- - alan   interesting note: 2003 EL61 has been found on plat...   Jul 30 2005, 06:02 PM
- - dvandorn   Truthfully, I think that Pluto needs to be demoted...   Jul 30 2005, 06:14 PM
|- - Alan Stern   I think that planets should be defined as objects ...   Jul 30 2005, 07:12 PM
|- - dvandorn   Aw, shoot -- and here I had in mind a concept wher...   Jul 30 2005, 07:57 PM
- - Mongo   I do rather like Mike Brown's definition of a ...   Jul 30 2005, 08:04 PM
|- - Alan Stern   Bill-- You're back to that old location argum...   Jul 30 2005, 10:25 PM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Jul 30 2005, 10:25 PM)Thi...   Jul 30 2005, 11:20 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   "In contrast, the earth has a diameter of abo...   Jul 30 2005, 08:38 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE Alan Stern said: And as to Sedna and Pluto a...   Jul 30 2005, 08:41 PM
- - Jyril   In my opinion, large Kuiper Belt objects (includin...   Jul 30 2005, 09:43 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Back in the 1980s, Isaac Asimov proposed that come...   Jul 30 2005, 11:17 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Mongo @ Jul 30 2005, 04:09 PM)It now l...   Jul 30 2005, 11:25 PM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 30 2005, 11:25 PM)Wh...   Jul 30 2005, 11:35 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   By the way, it's "2005 FY9", not ...   Jul 30 2005, 11:26 PM
- - deglr6328   Getting away from the planet/KBO/TNO debate for a ...   Jul 31 2005, 03:35 AM
|- - Alan Stern   These new guys are lilely to not be KB but instead...   Jul 31 2005, 03:51 AM
- - deglr6328   Cool! I will have to wait to read your paper i...   Jul 31 2005, 04:22 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   In our little private "Planetary Sciences...   Jul 31 2005, 05:55 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 30 2005, 10:55 PM)In...   Aug 1 2005, 08:44 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 1 2005, 08:44 PM)If I w...   Aug 1 2005, 11:50 PM
||- - spaceffm   For all interested in sizes i made 2 little Diagra...   Aug 2 2005, 12:19 AM
||- - tedstryk   It might be cool to add Ganymede, since it is the ...   Aug 2 2005, 01:31 AM
||- - paxdan   QUOTE (spaceffm @ Aug 2 2005, 01:19 AM)For al...   Aug 2 2005, 12:03 PM
||- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (paxdan @ Aug 2 2005, 07:03 AM)Nice one...   Aug 2 2005, 02:00 PM
|- - odave   QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 1 2005, 04:44 PM)If I w...   Aug 2 2005, 02:23 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (odave @ Aug 2 2005, 07:23 AM)One thing...   Aug 2 2005, 03:23 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 2 2005, 10:23 AM)Honest...   Aug 2 2005, 03:37 PM
- - Jyril   Like I feared, that -0.4 value was a false alarm, ...   Jul 31 2005, 07:21 AM
- - OWW   In my opinion the whole planet/KBO/asteroid debate...   Jul 31 2005, 09:35 AM
- - abalone   What peculiar little creatures we humans are that ...   Jul 31 2005, 09:36 AM
|- - dilo   Based on the ongoing discussion, I made following ...   Jul 31 2005, 11:06 AM
|- - Alan Stern   Dilo--I wonder, what will you do when Mars-sized a...   Jul 31 2005, 02:00 PM
|- - MiniTES   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Jul 31 2005, 02:00 PM)Loc...   Jul 31 2005, 05:43 PM
||- - Alan Stern   I do think Ceres is a planet: a dwarf one, but no ...   Jul 31 2005, 08:07 PM
||- - DEChengst   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Jul 31 2005, 10:07 PM)Jus...   Jul 31 2005, 08:40 PM
|- - DEChengst   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Jul 31 2005, 04:00 PM)Loc...   Jul 31 2005, 06:25 PM
- - alan   This is how I would divide things If it orbits a ...   Jul 31 2005, 06:35 PM
|- - Alan Stern   [quote=alan,Jul 31 2005, 06:35 PM] This is how I w...   Jul 31 2005, 08:11 PM
||- - dvandorn   So, is Titan a planet? Is Ganymede? Is Triton? ...   Jul 31 2005, 08:15 PM
|- - dilo   Alan, you observed that my scheme wouldn't cor...   Jul 31 2005, 10:13 PM
- - Mongo   I think that the problem we have is that the curre...   Jul 31 2005, 06:42 PM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (Mongo @ Jul 31 2005, 06:42 PM)I think ...   Jul 31 2005, 08:14 PM
- - dvandorn   If real estate doesn't matter and you classify...   Jul 31 2005, 07:44 PM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jul 31 2005, 07:44 PM)If re...   Jul 31 2005, 08:16 PM
|- - dvandorn   OK -- fair enough. Though that *is* allowing a gr...   Jul 31 2005, 08:29 PM
|- - Alan Stern   Other Doug-- I respectfully disagree; people I spe...   Jul 31 2005, 09:19 PM
|- - abalone   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Aug 1 2005, 07:29 AM)OK -- ...   Aug 1 2005, 12:28 PM
- - Mongo   Just to let everybody know ... there is a new Yaho...   Jul 31 2005, 10:33 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Alan Stern: "The one comment I'll make he...   Aug 1 2005, 03:31 AM
|- - abalone   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Aug 1 2005, 02:31 PM)Ala...   Aug 1 2005, 06:23 AM
|- - Alan Stern   Chonrules are spherical due to surface tension, no...   Aug 1 2005, 06:40 AM
|- - abalone   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Aug 1 2005, 05:40 PM)Chon...   Aug 1 2005, 07:00 AM
|- - dvandorn   I've been enjoying the discussion, actually. ...   Aug 1 2005, 07:37 AM
|- - abalone   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Aug 1 2005, 06:37 PM)  It...   Aug 1 2005, 12:38 PM
|- - AndyG   QUOTE (abalone @ Aug 1 2005, 12:38 PM)Classif...   Aug 1 2005, 03:11 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   More news from Mike Brown via Ron Baalke in the ...   Aug 1 2005, 03:33 AM
- - Decepticon   Boy would I love to see one of these up close. Ma...   Aug 1 2005, 03:42 AM
|- - Rob Pinnegar   Forgetting about trans-Neptunian objects for the m...   Aug 1 2005, 05:57 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Today's MPEC ( http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/mpec...   Aug 1 2005, 09:03 AM
- - edstrick   I haven't read every work exhaustively in the ...   Aug 1 2005, 10:14 AM
- - ilbasso   Our taxonomic system for life went through some ma...   Aug 1 2005, 04:24 PM
- - dvandorn   Don't delude yourselves, guys -- there is a fa...   Aug 1 2005, 05:48 PM
|- - Rob Pinnegar   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Aug 1 2005, 11:48 AM)One of...   Aug 2 2005, 01:23 AM
- - gpurcell   At what mass will a body have a differentiated cor...   Aug 2 2005, 01:20 AM
- - ilbasso   And don't forget Venus! (I know, and Satur...   Aug 2 2005, 02:19 AM
- - Decepticon   That is a Great chart! Very few of those on...   Aug 2 2005, 03:54 AM
- - abalone   Here's something to consider Brown argues tha...   Aug 2 2005, 09:24 AM
|- - Benoît   QUOTE (abalone @ Aug 2 2005, 05:24 AM)Here...   Aug 2 2005, 10:05 AM
||- - abalone   QUOTE (Benoît @ Aug 2 2005, 09:05 PM)There wa...   Aug 2 2005, 12:12 PM
|- - Rob Pinnegar   QUOTE (abalone @ Aug 2 2005, 03:24 AM)"E...   Aug 2 2005, 02:30 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Rob Pinnegar @ Aug 2 2005, 07:30 AM)Th...   Aug 2 2005, 03:41 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE ljk4-1 said: And don't forget how active...   Aug 2 2005, 02:37 PM
- - centsworth_II   Rather than embracing culture, why not embrace his...   Aug 2 2005, 03:23 PM
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