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Big Tno Discovery
SFJCody
post Jul 29 2005, 08:03 AM
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mpml/message/15111
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Jul 31 2005, 05:55 AM
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In our little private "Planetary Sciences" webgroup, Ron Baalke quoted Mike Brown himself as saying yesterday: "Based on Spitzer measurements, 2005 FY9 is confirmed to be smaller than Pluto." Unfortunately, he didn't say how much smaller. But at any rate the Revolution is now upon us: depending upon what size you use as a dividing line, the Solar System no longer has 9 known planets. It now has 10 or 11, or else it has 8, or else (if you follow Alan Stern's lead) it has a hell of a lot more. What we are really going to have to tell the schoolkids, of course, is that the question from now on will be forever ambiguous.
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JRehling
post Aug 1 2005, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 30 2005, 10:55 PM)
In our little private "Planetary Sciences" webgroup, Ron Baalke quoted Mike Brown himself as saying yesterday: "Based on Spitzer measurements, 2005 FY9 is confirmed to be smaller than Pluto." Unfortunately, he didn't say how much smaller.  But at any rate the Revolution is now upon us: depending upon what size you use as a dividing line, the Solar System no longer has 9 known planets.  It now has 10 or 11, or else it has 8, or else (if you follow Alan Stern's lead) it has a hell of a lot more.  What we are really going to have to tell the schoolkids, of course, is that the question from now on will be forever ambiguous.
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If I were designing a roster of solar system entities for fifth grade classrooms for the 2006-7 school year, I would have it read something like this:
Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, asteroids, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, [Whatever name 2003 UB313 ends up getting], comets, Kuiper Belt. (Yes that list ends up sounding like the roster of Santa's reindeers, which might be a nice way to get kids to remember some of it.)

If the number of things of planetlike size gets to be much bigger, it will start to be cruel to expect wee little kids to remember them all, which may merit dropping individual mention of everything past Neptune -- that's not a scientific measure, but a pedagogical one.
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Posts in this topic
- SFJCody   Big Tno Discovery   Jul 29 2005, 08:03 AM
- - mike   Planet X, or perhaps Rama I.   Jul 29 2005, 08:17 AM
- - slinted   Interestingly enough, it had already been found by...   Jul 29 2005, 09:16 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   Hmmm... ...a candidate for a post-Pluto encounter,...   Jul 29 2005, 09:55 AM
- - TheChemist   BBC article : Distant object found orbiting Sun   Jul 29 2005, 11:52 AM
- - volcanopele   While K40506A/2003 EL61 now appears to be smaller ...   Jul 29 2005, 09:55 PM
- - Sunspot   WOW............when will there be an official anno...   Jul 29 2005, 10:15 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (Sunspot @ Jul 29 2005, 03:15 PM)WOW......   Jul 30 2005, 12:58 AM
|- - odave   The article quotes Brown as saying it will be ...   Jul 30 2005, 01:32 AM
- - Jyril   That's not all! There are third large KBO...   Jul 29 2005, 11:29 PM
- - Decepticon   Is the object at it's closest approach to the ...   Jul 30 2005, 03:20 AM
- - Decepticon   http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/050729_new_p...   Jul 30 2005, 03:22 AM
- - remcook   Methane on the surface as well...another frozen-ou...   Jul 30 2005, 11:28 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   According to the NY Times, it's nowhere near p...   Jul 30 2005, 11:42 AM
|- - dilo   In a previous thread, few months ago, I proposed a...   Jul 30 2005, 01:10 PM
|- - Rob Pinnegar   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 30 2005, 05:42 AM)Pe...   Jul 30 2005, 03:32 PM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 30 2005, 11:42 AM)Pe...   Jul 30 2005, 04:09 PM
- - Myran   Bruce. Just wait until they have found a thousand ...   Jul 30 2005, 12:37 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Myran @ Jul 30 2005, 12:37 PM)Bruce. J...   Jul 30 2005, 01:52 PM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (Myran @ Jul 30 2005, 12:37 PM)Bruce. J...   Jul 30 2005, 02:03 PM
- - Sunspot   Any idea what the dates would have been for the la...   Jul 30 2005, 02:22 PM
- - alan   about 1700, roughly magnitude 14.5 next about 2250   Jul 30 2005, 03:04 PM
- - Decepticon   With all these discovers which web page has a list...   Jul 30 2005, 03:52 PM
|- - alan   QUOTE (Decepticon @ Jul 30 2005, 03:52 PM)Wit...   Jul 30 2005, 05:34 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE Alan Stern said: That day will come, in this...   Jul 30 2005, 04:02 PM
- - gpurcell   I wonder if a size+orbital mechanics might not be ...   Jul 30 2005, 05:24 PM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (gpurcell @ Jul 30 2005, 05:24 PM)I won...   Jul 30 2005, 07:08 PM
- - alan   interesting note: 2003 EL61 has been found on plat...   Jul 30 2005, 06:02 PM
- - dvandorn   Truthfully, I think that Pluto needs to be demoted...   Jul 30 2005, 06:14 PM
|- - Alan Stern   I think that planets should be defined as objects ...   Jul 30 2005, 07:12 PM
|- - dvandorn   Aw, shoot -- and here I had in mind a concept wher...   Jul 30 2005, 07:57 PM
- - Mongo   I do rather like Mike Brown's definition of a ...   Jul 30 2005, 08:04 PM
|- - Alan Stern   Bill-- You're back to that old location argum...   Jul 30 2005, 10:25 PM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Jul 30 2005, 10:25 PM)Thi...   Jul 30 2005, 11:20 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   "In contrast, the earth has a diameter of abo...   Jul 30 2005, 08:38 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE Alan Stern said: And as to Sedna and Pluto a...   Jul 30 2005, 08:41 PM
- - Jyril   In my opinion, large Kuiper Belt objects (includin...   Jul 30 2005, 09:43 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Back in the 1980s, Isaac Asimov proposed that come...   Jul 30 2005, 11:17 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Mongo @ Jul 30 2005, 04:09 PM)It now l...   Jul 30 2005, 11:25 PM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 30 2005, 11:25 PM)Wh...   Jul 30 2005, 11:35 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   By the way, it's "2005 FY9", not ...   Jul 30 2005, 11:26 PM
- - deglr6328   Getting away from the planet/KBO/TNO debate for a ...   Jul 31 2005, 03:35 AM
|- - Alan Stern   These new guys are lilely to not be KB but instead...   Jul 31 2005, 03:51 AM
- - deglr6328   Cool! I will have to wait to read your paper i...   Jul 31 2005, 04:22 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   In our little private "Planetary Sciences...   Jul 31 2005, 05:55 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jul 30 2005, 10:55 PM)In...   Aug 1 2005, 08:44 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 1 2005, 08:44 PM)If I w...   Aug 1 2005, 11:50 PM
||- - spaceffm   For all interested in sizes i made 2 little Diagra...   Aug 2 2005, 12:19 AM
||- - tedstryk   It might be cool to add Ganymede, since it is the ...   Aug 2 2005, 01:31 AM
||- - paxdan   QUOTE (spaceffm @ Aug 2 2005, 01:19 AM)For al...   Aug 2 2005, 12:03 PM
||- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (paxdan @ Aug 2 2005, 07:03 AM)Nice one...   Aug 2 2005, 02:00 PM
|- - odave   QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 1 2005, 04:44 PM)If I w...   Aug 2 2005, 02:23 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (odave @ Aug 2 2005, 07:23 AM)One thing...   Aug 2 2005, 03:23 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 2 2005, 10:23 AM)Honest...   Aug 2 2005, 03:37 PM
- - Jyril   Like I feared, that -0.4 value was a false alarm, ...   Jul 31 2005, 07:21 AM
- - OWW   In my opinion the whole planet/KBO/asteroid debate...   Jul 31 2005, 09:35 AM
- - abalone   What peculiar little creatures we humans are that ...   Jul 31 2005, 09:36 AM
|- - dilo   Based on the ongoing discussion, I made following ...   Jul 31 2005, 11:06 AM
|- - Alan Stern   Dilo--I wonder, what will you do when Mars-sized a...   Jul 31 2005, 02:00 PM
|- - MiniTES   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Jul 31 2005, 02:00 PM)Loc...   Jul 31 2005, 05:43 PM
||- - Alan Stern   I do think Ceres is a planet: a dwarf one, but no ...   Jul 31 2005, 08:07 PM
||- - DEChengst   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Jul 31 2005, 10:07 PM)Jus...   Jul 31 2005, 08:40 PM
|- - DEChengst   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Jul 31 2005, 04:00 PM)Loc...   Jul 31 2005, 06:25 PM
- - alan   This is how I would divide things If it orbits a ...   Jul 31 2005, 06:35 PM
|- - Alan Stern   [quote=alan,Jul 31 2005, 06:35 PM] This is how I w...   Jul 31 2005, 08:11 PM
||- - dvandorn   So, is Titan a planet? Is Ganymede? Is Triton? ...   Jul 31 2005, 08:15 PM
|- - dilo   Alan, you observed that my scheme wouldn't cor...   Jul 31 2005, 10:13 PM
- - Mongo   I think that the problem we have is that the curre...   Jul 31 2005, 06:42 PM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (Mongo @ Jul 31 2005, 06:42 PM)I think ...   Jul 31 2005, 08:14 PM
- - dvandorn   If real estate doesn't matter and you classify...   Jul 31 2005, 07:44 PM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jul 31 2005, 07:44 PM)If re...   Jul 31 2005, 08:16 PM
|- - dvandorn   OK -- fair enough. Though that *is* allowing a gr...   Jul 31 2005, 08:29 PM
|- - Alan Stern   Other Doug-- I respectfully disagree; people I spe...   Jul 31 2005, 09:19 PM
|- - abalone   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Aug 1 2005, 07:29 AM)OK -- ...   Aug 1 2005, 12:28 PM
- - Mongo   Just to let everybody know ... there is a new Yaho...   Jul 31 2005, 10:33 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Alan Stern: "The one comment I'll make he...   Aug 1 2005, 03:31 AM
|- - abalone   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Aug 1 2005, 02:31 PM)Ala...   Aug 1 2005, 06:23 AM
|- - Alan Stern   Chonrules are spherical due to surface tension, no...   Aug 1 2005, 06:40 AM
|- - abalone   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Aug 1 2005, 05:40 PM)Chon...   Aug 1 2005, 07:00 AM
|- - dvandorn   I've been enjoying the discussion, actually. ...   Aug 1 2005, 07:37 AM
|- - abalone   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Aug 1 2005, 06:37 PM)  It...   Aug 1 2005, 12:38 PM
|- - AndyG   QUOTE (abalone @ Aug 1 2005, 12:38 PM)Classif...   Aug 1 2005, 03:11 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   More news from Mike Brown via Ron Baalke in the ...   Aug 1 2005, 03:33 AM
- - Decepticon   Boy would I love to see one of these up close. Ma...   Aug 1 2005, 03:42 AM
|- - Rob Pinnegar   Forgetting about trans-Neptunian objects for the m...   Aug 1 2005, 05:57 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Today's MPEC ( http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/mpec...   Aug 1 2005, 09:03 AM
- - edstrick   I haven't read every work exhaustively in the ...   Aug 1 2005, 10:14 AM
- - ilbasso   Our taxonomic system for life went through some ma...   Aug 1 2005, 04:24 PM
- - dvandorn   Don't delude yourselves, guys -- there is a fa...   Aug 1 2005, 05:48 PM
|- - Rob Pinnegar   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Aug 1 2005, 11:48 AM)One of...   Aug 2 2005, 01:23 AM
- - gpurcell   At what mass will a body have a differentiated cor...   Aug 2 2005, 01:20 AM
- - ilbasso   And don't forget Venus! (I know, and Satur...   Aug 2 2005, 02:19 AM
- - Decepticon   That is a Great chart! Very few of those on...   Aug 2 2005, 03:54 AM
- - abalone   Here's something to consider Brown argues tha...   Aug 2 2005, 09:24 AM
|- - Benoît   QUOTE (abalone @ Aug 2 2005, 05:24 AM)Here...   Aug 2 2005, 10:05 AM
||- - abalone   QUOTE (Benoît @ Aug 2 2005, 09:05 PM)There wa...   Aug 2 2005, 12:12 PM
|- - Rob Pinnegar   QUOTE (abalone @ Aug 2 2005, 03:24 AM)"E...   Aug 2 2005, 02:30 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Rob Pinnegar @ Aug 2 2005, 07:30 AM)Th...   Aug 2 2005, 03:41 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE ljk4-1 said: And don't forget how active...   Aug 2 2005, 02:37 PM
- - centsworth_II   Rather than embracing culture, why not embrace his...   Aug 2 2005, 03:23 PM
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