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Astronomer Claim 10'th Planet - Huh?, Planetary science
Guest_Myran_*
post Jul 30 2005, 05:51 AM
Post #1





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NASA sponsored astronomer Michael Brown of CIT just announced he have found a 10'th planet.
The claim was made for one object based on its brightness alone and that for one object at 3 times the distance of Pluto. In short its smack in the middle of the belt of other KBO's.
The guy claim he was forced to reveal his data since a hacker had threatened to release information about the object.
Im strongly unconvinced about that story.
Why then claim it to be a planet rightoff. More likely think this guy must be looking for the fame of Clyde Tombaugh.
Without any infrared measurements or to establish the albedo properly which would have given a guesstimate of the objects size he singlehandedly claim a KBO planet, this should get the Bad astronomy 1'st price prize for preposterous extrapolation from a single unconvincing piece of scientific data. mad.gif
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edstrick
post Jun 13 2006, 10:09 AM
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".... I'd expect these brown dwarf systems to greatly outnumber all the visible stars....."

The IMF (Initial Mass Function) or size distribution of new stars shows a rather sharp rolloff in the frequency of very low mass M stars and that appears to continue and get stronger into brown dwarfs. It's very hard to measure the IMF of mature stars in the solar vicinity as the faintest are so faint that catalogs become very incomplete at distances of very few light years.

However, It's much easier to study mass/abundance distributions of stars in young clusters, where low mass M stars and brown dwarfs and even rogue-planets still have very substantial thermal output from formation. In addition, they're studying faint object abundances all the way from star-forming regions like Orion, to young clusters like the Pleiades to older clusters like the Hyades.

There is also a *LOT* of theoretical work on variations in the IMF between different types of star forming regions, low-mass-leisurly-accreting nebula to super-star-forming-complexes with high supernova rates and lots of super-heavy stars.

I'm barely familiar with the literature, but it's out there. The main point is that low mass M and brown dwarf stars are much less abundant than simple extrapolation of brighter star abundances used to suggest.
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- Myran   Astronomer Claim 10'th Planet - Huh?   Jul 30 2005, 05:51 AM
- - CosmicRocker   Myran: I really don't have a lot of backgroun...   Aug 2 2005, 04:58 AM
- - volcanopele   QUOTE (Myran @ Jul 29 2005, 10:51 PM)NASA spo...   Aug 2 2005, 04:32 PM
- - Myran   CosmicRocker: When I posted this, we didnt have mu...   Aug 2 2005, 08:02 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (Myran @ Aug 2 2005, 08:02 PM)volcanope...   Aug 3 2005, 12:10 AM
- - CosmicRocker   David: That was an insightful description of some...   Aug 3 2005, 05:39 AM
- - Myran   Um hold a second here David , I didnt question the...   Aug 3 2005, 03:11 PM
- - Jeff7   I figure this is going to turn out like Saturn. Ho...   Aug 3 2005, 05:23 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (Jeff7 @ Aug 3 2005, 05:23 PM)I figure ...   Aug 3 2005, 07:24 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE Jeff7 said: I figure this is going to turn o...   Aug 3 2005, 06:22 PM
- - ilbasso   Then you also get into the asteroids with moons, l...   Aug 8 2005, 09:43 PM
- - ljk4-1   Definition of 'Planet' Expected in Septemb...   Jun 9 2006, 07:41 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Wonderful! Think of all the fun they can have...   Jun 10 2006, 02:10 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Jun 10 2006, 02:10 A...   Jun 10 2006, 07:22 AM
|- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jun 10 2006, 07...   Jun 12 2006, 01:24 PM
- - ljk4-1   Note scientists' attempts to introduce two new...   Jun 10 2006, 02:46 PM
- - ngunn   Just as small stars are much more common than mass...   Jun 12 2006, 12:25 PM
- - Rob Pinnegar   I've said this before, but: Assigning names to...   Jun 12 2006, 12:44 PM
- - ngunn   I agree with you about assigning names prematurely...   Jun 12 2006, 01:10 PM
- - ljk4-1   I am waiting for the discovery of a star orbiting ...   Jun 12 2006, 01:53 PM
|- - paxdan   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jun 12 2006, 02:53 P...   Jun 12 2006, 02:45 PM
- - ngunn   I propose 'Moomoon' for a moonlet orbiting...   Jun 12 2006, 02:10 PM
- - ilbasso   Would there be Moomoons in the Cowper Belt?   Jun 12 2006, 02:36 PM
|- - Rob Pinnegar   QUOTE (ilbasso @ Jun 12 2006, 08:36 AM) W...   Jun 13 2006, 12:24 AM
||- - dvandorn   QUOTE (Rob Pinnegar @ Jun 12 2006, 07:24 ...   Jun 13 2006, 07:41 AM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (ilbasso @ Jun 12 2006, 03:36 PM) W...   Jun 13 2006, 07:52 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (ngunn @ Jun 13 2006, 08:52 AM) May...   Jun 13 2006, 08:55 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   I think this debate is not by itself a astronomy/s...   Jun 13 2006, 06:14 AM
|- - David   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jun 13 2006, 06...   Jun 13 2006, 06:43 AM
- - edstrick   ".... I'd expect these brown dwarf system...   Jun 13 2006, 10:09 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Jun 13 2006, 10:09 AM) ...   Jun 13 2006, 12:24 PM
- - ngunn   Even if the number of low mass systems is much les...   Jun 13 2006, 04:21 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE ngunn wrote: Even if the number of low mass ...   Jun 13 2006, 05:48 PM
- - ngunn   O.K. let's make the very conservative assumpti...   Jun 14 2006, 09:58 AM
- - edstrick   My *VAGUE* recollections of abstracts I've ski...   Jun 14 2006, 11:21 AM
- - ngunn   Thnks for that phrase edstrick: http://www.aas.org...   Jun 14 2006, 12:32 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (ngunn @ Jun 14 2006, 08:32 AM) Thn...   Jun 14 2006, 01:12 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jun 14 2006, 02:12 P...   Jun 14 2006, 02:04 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   Googling "Initial Mass functions" I foun...   Jun 14 2006, 05:19 PM
- - alan   QUOTE From our construction and analysis of the ne...   Jun 14 2006, 10:29 PM
- - edstrick   OK.... There's an inflection in the log-log cu...   Jun 15 2006, 04:36 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   Thanks alan for your links, especially the second ...   Jun 15 2006, 06:39 AM
- - ngunn   Sorry to disagree Richard but these conclusions ar...   Jun 15 2006, 12:46 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   I (or rather the study I quote) never said that th...   Jun 15 2006, 04:29 PM
- - ngunn   I suppose what I'm saying is this: 1/ The dif...   Jun 16 2006, 08:26 AM
- - edstrick   Middle-term, the really solid determination of the...   Jun 16 2006, 09:48 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   The point is that, these objects are not only ver...   Jun 16 2006, 09:58 AM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jun 16 2006, 05...   Jun 16 2006, 12:56 PM
- - ngunn   I think that just means it re-radiates what it rec...   Jun 16 2006, 01:37 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE ljk4-1 wrote: I thought Jupiter radiated mor...   Jun 16 2006, 07:57 PM
- - ngunn   Since our recent discussion on brown dwarf numbers...   Jun 19 2006, 12:08 PM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (ngunn @ Jun 19 2006, 12:08 PM) Sin...   Jul 10 2006, 01:07 AM
|- - Greg Hullender   Forgive my presumption, but I had thought the Oort...   Jul 10 2006, 03:33 PM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Jul 10 2006, 03:3...   Jul 10 2006, 06:19 PM
- - The Messenger   Thanks, Alan. There is an interesting, but EXTREM...   Jul 13 2006, 05:40 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Messenger, I had an intuition of something like th...   Jul 13 2006, 06:14 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jul 13 2006, 07...   Jul 17 2006, 08:26 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ngunn @ Jul 17 2006, 08:26 AM) I t...   Jul 17 2006, 11:04 AM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jul 17 2006, 12...   Jul 18 2006, 07:53 AM
- - ljk4-1   Let us hope the Sol system and the rest of the gal...   Jul 13 2006, 06:14 PM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jul 13 2006, 06:14 P...   Jul 14 2006, 09:39 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   These stories are interesting, but fictional. It i...   Jul 14 2006, 09:52 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE Richard Trigaux wrote: The Oort cloud is a t...   Jul 15 2006, 11:17 AM
- - Jyril   Although the Oort Cloud has most likely far larger...   Jul 15 2006, 08:46 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (Jyril @ Jul 15 2006, 08:46 PM) Alt...   Jul 15 2006, 10:47 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (David @ Jul 15 2006, 11:47 PM) If ...   Jul 15 2006, 11:32 PM
- - alan   The Taiwanese-American Occultation Survey will loo...   Jul 16 2006, 12:04 AM


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