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The Pioneer Anomaly
remcook
post Aug 16 2005, 04:27 PM
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http://www.planetary.org/news/2005/pioneer_anomaly_faq.html

The planetary society may be checking it out...

QUOTE
The Planetary Society has committed to raise the funds to preserve the priceless Pioneer data from destruction.


After years of analysis, but without a final conclusion, NASA, astonishingly, gave up trying to solve the "Pioneer Anomaly" and provided no funds to analyze the data. The Pioneer data exists on a few hundred ancient 7- and 9-track magnetic tapes, which can only be read on "antique" outdated computers. The agency is going to scrap, literally demolish, the only computers able to access and process that data in the next few months!
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dvandorn
post Sep 7 2005, 07:36 AM
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Once again, I'm asking a question that I probably ought to just Google up for myself, but it does go along with the thread...

One of the experiments in the Apollo 17 ALSEP was the Lunar Surface Gravimeter. As I recall, it was designed to detect gravity waves. (It failed because it was balanced in 1G and was entirely out of balance, and hence useless, in 1/6G.)

Does anyone know what types of waves the LSG was designed to detect? Would it have been more in the LISA range or the LIGO range?

I guess I'm wondering what kinds of things we might have been gathering data on for more than 30 years if the instrument had just been designed properly...

-the other Doug


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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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Guest_Richard Trigaux_*
post Sep 7 2005, 10:28 AM
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QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 7 2005, 07:36 AM)
Does anyone know what types of waves the LSG was designed to detect?  Would it have been more in the LISA range or the LIGO range?

I guess I'm wondering what kinds of things we might have been gathering data on for more than 30 years if the instrument had just been designed properly...

-the other Doug
*


I think that, even if such an instrument was properly designed, it had far from enough sensitivity to detect expected gravitationnal waves. Gravimeters are very sensitive indeed, they can detect such "low" masses as mountains, and even less (remember the historical Cavendish experiment which measured the effect of a some kilograms mass). But this is very far from enough to detect gravitationnal waves, which are many orders of magnitude under this level of sensitivity. Otherwise it would not be necessary to build such complicated experiments as LIGO, it would be enough to send a gravimeter in the ISS.

Perhaps the most powerfull recent gravitationnal event was the supernova in 1978, but who knows what happens in the gravitationnal field.
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Posts in this topic
- remcook   The Pioneer Anomaly   Aug 16 2005, 04:27 PM
- - remcook   Some background reading... http://arxiv.org/find/...   Aug 16 2005, 04:40 PM
|- - tedstryk   Won't New Horizons be spin stabilized when not...   Aug 16 2005, 06:53 PM
|- - Jeff7   QUOTE (remcook @ Aug 16 2005, 11:40 AM)Some b...   Aug 17 2005, 07:09 PM
- - remcook   Quote from alan stern: QUOTE Yes, we spin most of...   Aug 16 2005, 07:43 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Could not the Pioneer tapes be saved on a more mod...   Aug 17 2005, 06:37 AM
- - remcook   QUOTE It looks like the Pioneers have long stopped...   Aug 17 2005, 08:09 PM
- - deglr6328   QUOTE (remcook @ Aug 17 2005, 08:09 PM)that...   Aug 17 2005, 11:10 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Aug 18 2005, 12:10 AM)Not ...   Aug 18 2005, 08:24 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   As far as I understand from readings in the press,...   Aug 18 2005, 06:59 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Aug 17 2005, 11:59 P...   Aug 26 2005, 09:08 PM
|- - antoniseb   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Aug 26 2005, 04:08 PM)...   Aug 26 2005, 10:42 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (antoniseb @ Aug 26 2005, 03:42 PM)The ...   Aug 29 2005, 05:25 PM
|- - algorimancer   It seems to me that a simple means of checking thi...   Aug 29 2005, 05:40 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (algorimancer @ Aug 29 2005, 10:40 AM)I...   Aug 29 2005, 06:12 PM
- - edstrick   Climate orbiter was not radar tracked, it was tran...   Aug 30 2005, 08:52 AM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (edstrick @ Aug 30 2005, 08:52 AM)There...   Aug 30 2005, 07:12 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Bill: Your links, er, don't! Bob Shaw   Aug 31 2005, 11:28 AM
|- - Mongo   That's strange; I just clicked on them and the...   Aug 31 2005, 02:45 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (Mongo @ Aug 31 2005, 03:45 PM)That...   Aug 31 2005, 03:42 PM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Aug 31 2005, 03:42 PM)I pro...   Aug 31 2005, 03:57 PM
- - The Messenger   I am at least as interested in the flight path ecc...   Aug 31 2005, 06:56 PM
|- - antoniseb   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Aug 31 2005, 01:56 PM)...   Aug 31 2005, 09:58 PM
- - dvandorn   Hmmm... well, the effect must be very, very minor ...   Aug 31 2005, 07:24 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Thanks to recent posters this thread took an inter...   Sep 3 2005, 09:07 AM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 3 2005, 07:07 PM...   Sep 5 2005, 12:13 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   A rather interesting prospective explanation of th...   Sep 3 2005, 10:07 AM
- - remcook   some people seem to agree and applied for funding ...   Sep 3 2005, 10:18 AM
- - The Messenger   Richard's proposed test of the Pioneer Anomaly...   Sep 3 2005, 05:00 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Messenger, my idea was intended to detect a gravi...   Sep 4 2005, 07:03 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   The LISA observatory project will use three test m...   Sep 5 2005, 08:57 AM
- - The Messenger   All of these approaches use assumptions we should ...   Sep 5 2005, 04:28 PM
|- - jamescanvin   Heading off topic but... QUOTE (The Messenger ...   Sep 6 2005, 12:17 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Sep 5 2005, 05:17 PM)Hea...   Sep 6 2005, 05:53 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   Thanks jamescanvin for the image and the info it c...   Sep 6 2005, 06:37 AM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 6 2005, 04:37 PM...   Sep 7 2005, 12:27 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Sep 7 2005, 12:27 AM)Yes...   Sep 7 2005, 05:42 AM
- - dvandorn   Once again, I'm asking a question that I proba...   Sep 7 2005, 07:36 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 7 2005, 07:36 AM)Does a...   Sep 7 2005, 10:28 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 7 2005, 03:28 AM...   Sep 8 2005, 06:21 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 8 2005, 06:21 PM)I...   Sep 9 2005, 07:21 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 9 2005, 12:21 AM...   Sep 12 2005, 01:49 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 12 2005, 01:49 PM)...   Sep 12 2005, 02:23 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 12 2005, 07:23 A...   Sep 12 2005, 06:56 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 12 2005, 06:56 PM)...   Sep 13 2005, 10:15 AM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 13 2005, 05:15 A...   Sep 13 2005, 01:17 PM
- - edstrick   I'd have to check, but I think the Apollo 17 i...   Sep 7 2005, 08:22 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 7 2005, 09:22 AM)The in...   Sep 7 2005, 09:42 AM
||- - dvandorn   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Sep 7 2005, 04:42 AM)Oooh, ...   Sep 7 2005, 06:33 PM
||- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 7 2005, 07:33 PM)Oh, th...   Sep 7 2005, 08:47 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 7 2005, 03:22 AM)I...   Sep 7 2005, 06:41 PM
- - edstrick   When the gravimeter was proposed, selected and des...   Sep 7 2005, 10:38 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 7 2005, 10:38 AM)When t...   Sep 7 2005, 02:38 PM
- - edstrick   "From what I understand, though, even with th...   Sep 8 2005, 10:49 AM
- - edstrick   It has been hoped that cosmic sources of gravitati...   Sep 9 2005, 07:45 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 9 2005, 07:45 AM)As far...   Sep 9 2005, 08:17 AM
- - The Messenger   Suggestions, by anyone, of engineering on this sca...   Sep 13 2005, 04:16 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 13 2005, 04:16 PM)...   Sep 13 2005, 06:06 PM
- - The Messenger   Returning to the Pioneer Anomally: You may or may...   Sep 14 2005, 03:31 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   Messenger, yes the Earth does have a "gravita...   Sep 14 2005, 03:46 PM
|- - ljk4-1   http://www.issi.unibe.ch/teams/Pioneer/ The Pione...   Oct 3 2005, 04:46 AM
- - edstrick   ljk4-1: "...The Pioneer Explorer Collaboratio...   Oct 3 2005, 07:15 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   Thanks ljk4-1 for your interesting contribution. A...   Oct 3 2005, 08:15 AM
- - deglr6328   sooooo did the planetary soc. get the data or what...   Oct 3 2005, 09:53 AM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Oct 3 2005, 02:53 AM)soooo...   Nov 10 2005, 01:29 AM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Nov 9 2005, 08:29 PM) We...   Nov 10 2005, 02:33 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 10 2005, 07:33 AM)De...   Nov 10 2005, 04:46 PM
- - edstrick   <grin> by "anomaly" I mean an ord...   Oct 3 2005, 09:57 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Oct 3 2005, 09:57 AM)<gr...   Oct 3 2005, 12:40 PM
- - edstrick   Aliens?... I thought it was the CIA and FBI.... or...   Oct 4 2005, 06:27 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Oct 4 2005, 06:27 AM)Aliens...   Oct 4 2005, 07:37 AM
- - edstrick   You know what the problem is with make-believe par...   Oct 4 2005, 10:51 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Oct 4 2005, 10:51 AM)You kn...   Oct 4 2005, 04:41 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Astrophysics, abstract astro-ph/0504367 From: Gary...   Oct 4 2005, 07:35 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Paper: astro-ph/0506281 replaced with revised ve...   Oct 26 2005, 02:08 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Paper (*cross-listing*): gr-qc/0511026 Date: Sun...   Nov 9 2005, 04:32 PM
- - Myran   Calculations using the 'MOND' theory (Modi...   Nov 9 2005, 09:10 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   I wonder if we could do any theory of any kind, ad...   Nov 9 2005, 09:21 PM
- - mike   That's what a theory is.   Nov 9 2005, 09:42 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE Richard Trigaux said: I wonder if we could d...   Nov 10 2005, 05:21 AM
- - lyford   Call me old fashioned, but I am a bit wary of jett...   Nov 10 2005, 06:41 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (lyford @ Nov 9 2005, 11:41 PM)Call me ...   Nov 10 2005, 04:44 PM
|- - lyford   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Nov 10 2005, 08:44 AM)...   Nov 10 2005, 10:06 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Astrophysics, abstract astro-ph/0505310 From: Mic...   Dec 20 2005, 04:05 PM
|- - ljk4-1   General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology, abstract...   Jan 3 2006, 02:31 AM
|- - tfisher   I just read through the last paper linked. They...   Jan 3 2006, 07:10 AM
|- - ljk4-1   Paper: astro-ph/0504367 Date (v1): Sun, 17 Apr 20...   Jan 4 2006, 06:18 PM
- - tasp   I bet it is not as simple as this, but I will pos...   Jan 5 2006, 04:14 AM
|- - mchan   QUOTE (tasp @ Jan 4 2006, 08:14 PM)Any possib...   Jan 5 2006, 06:06 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (mchan @ Jan 5 2006, 07:06 AM)One probl...   Jan 5 2006, 08:52 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jan 5 2006, 09:52 AM)Wasn...   Jan 5 2006, 01:16 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Can New Horizons participate in this experiment? ...   Jan 5 2006, 02:22 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jan 5 2006, 02:22 PM)Can...   Jan 5 2006, 02:43 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (djellison @ Jan 5 2006, 03:43 PM)That...   Jan 5 2006, 02:50 PM
- - tasp   If an objection to putting a Voyager into a slow s...   Jan 5 2006, 02:45 PM
- - djellison   Damn good point actually UG - hadnt thought of tha...   Jan 5 2006, 02:58 PM
- - ugordan   QUOTE (djellison @ Jan 5 2006, 03:58 PM)Then ...   Jan 5 2006, 03:05 PM
- - NMRguy   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Feb 23 2005, 09:20 AM)Yes...   Jan 5 2006, 05:19 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (NMRguy @ Jan 5 2006, 05:19 PM)Alan add...   Jan 5 2006, 05:56 PM
- - tty   QUOTE (ugordan @ Jan 5 2006, 05:05 PM)Might h...   Jan 5 2006, 06:47 PM
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