The Pioneer Anomaly |
The Pioneer Anomaly |
Aug 16 2005, 04:27 PM
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Rover Driver ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 981 Joined: 4-March 04 Member No.: 47 |
http://www.planetary.org/news/2005/pioneer_anomaly_faq.html
The planetary society may be checking it out... QUOTE The Planetary Society has committed to raise the funds to preserve the priceless Pioneer data from destruction.
After years of analysis, but without a final conclusion, NASA, astonishingly, gave up trying to solve the "Pioneer Anomaly" and provided no funds to analyze the data. The Pioneer data exists on a few hundred ancient 7- and 9-track magnetic tapes, which can only be read on "antique" outdated computers. The agency is going to scrap, literally demolish, the only computers able to access and process that data in the next few months! |
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Sep 14 2005, 03:31 PM
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 624 Joined: 10-August 05 Member No.: 460 |
Returning to the Pioneer Anomally:
You may or may not be aware of the curious brightening phenomenon being studied by Ann Verbiscer, per the Planetary Weblog: QUOTE (Emily L) "We see three different views of Saturn on different dates. The globe of Saturn hardly looks different at all at these small differences in phase angle. But look at the rings! With the minutest difference in phase angle -- from 0.13 degrees down to 0.02 degrees -- the rings suddenly flash into brilliant light. Anne told me that she saw similar effects on Saturn's icy satellites, especially Enceladus. The size of the opposition surge she saw was "drastically higher, 40% higher, than previously published values." I'm not an astronomical observer myself so Anne had to explain to me what causes the opposition surge. One explanation is "shadow hiding" -- at any non-zero phase angle, the particles in the rings cast shadows across other particles in the rings, so that darkens the surface. But at zero phase, you see no shadows at all, and the surface looks brighter. But Anne said that "it doesn't work" to explain all of the observed opposition effect. You need something more, like coherent backscatter: that is, constructive interference of the light being reflected from the rings and Enceladus. There is an explanation that is consistent, actually a necessary constraint, upon the permeability hypothesis I entered above: The rings of Saturn, the highly reflective surfaces of some of the moons, are more like mirrors than nominal planetary surfaces. The sunlight reflected by the rings, therefore, more closely resembles a mirrored reflection of the sun, and will return a loosely coherant image of the sun. When the Earth passes exactly between the Sun and Saturn, the rings and more reflective moons brighten. Why would the reflection be brighter at the very center? If and ony if there is curvature of space. The image of the sun is focused only at the center, at anyother position of the Earth relative to the sun and Saturn, the image is deconvoluted. When the Earth is exactly positioned in front of the sun, a perfectly curved lens would return a much brighter reflection of the sun. That is exactly what is happening. And why would there be curvature? If and only if the permeability of space varies, increasing the speed of light with increasing distance from the center of the solar system, and this would be true if and only if the permeability of space is a function of MASS. OK, There may be other solutions: Fressnel lensing, for example, but the solution is a lensing solution because the amount of brightening is also a function of wavelength, as would be expected with any single density lensing element. The curvature has to be very slight...almost undetectable, but not quite, because it produces this brilliant mirror effect exactly in the center - just as a gravitational lens should. But the Earth is too far from the sun to experience this kind of curvature, with GR, as formulated by Einstein, to be the cause. (Also the mass of the Earth is not great enough to cause a GR bending of the light.) This also explains why there are so many 'Gravitational' lenses, and 'micro quasar' lenses in the galaxy: There is a not-so-new physical principle being manifest: The permeability of space is a function of mass, the speed of light is only a constant in an ideal vacuum that includes the absence of any matter. Returning to the Pioneer Accelerations, they are an artifact: We use the two-way time and speed of light to determine the distance to the probes. As the speed of light increases at a rate of ~1X10^-9m/s^2, the time it takes light to reach the probes and return is less than if the speed of light were constant. We interpret this as an acceleration of the probes towards the sun, when it is actually a slight acceleration of light away from the sun. (Of course both the speed of light, and the acceleration of the probes are not independently constrained at this time, so the true acceleration of the probes is unknown.) |
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remcook The Pioneer Anomaly Aug 16 2005, 04:27 PM
remcook Some background reading...
http://arxiv.org/find/... Aug 16 2005, 04:40 PM
tedstryk Won't New Horizons be spin stabilized when not... Aug 16 2005, 06:53 PM
Jeff7 QUOTE (remcook @ Aug 16 2005, 11:40 AM)Some b... Aug 17 2005, 07:09 PM
remcook Quote from alan stern:
QUOTE Yes, we spin most of... Aug 16 2005, 07:43 PM
Richard Trigaux Could not the Pioneer tapes be saved on a more mod... Aug 17 2005, 06:37 AM
remcook QUOTE It looks like the Pioneers have long stopped... Aug 17 2005, 08:09 PM
deglr6328 QUOTE (remcook @ Aug 17 2005, 08:09 PM)that... Aug 17 2005, 11:10 PM
Bob Shaw QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Aug 18 2005, 12:10 AM)Not ... Aug 18 2005, 08:24 AM
Richard Trigaux As far as I understand from readings in the press,... Aug 18 2005, 06:59 AM
The Messenger QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Aug 17 2005, 11:59 P... Aug 26 2005, 09:08 PM
antoniseb QUOTE (The Messenger @ Aug 26 2005, 04:08 PM)... Aug 26 2005, 10:42 PM
The Messenger QUOTE (antoniseb @ Aug 26 2005, 03:42 PM)The ... Aug 29 2005, 05:25 PM
algorimancer It seems to me that a simple means of checking thi... Aug 29 2005, 05:40 PM
The Messenger QUOTE (algorimancer @ Aug 29 2005, 10:40 AM)I... Aug 29 2005, 06:12 PM
edstrick Climate orbiter was not radar tracked, it was tran... Aug 30 2005, 08:52 AM
Mongo QUOTE (edstrick @ Aug 30 2005, 08:52 AM)There... Aug 30 2005, 07:12 PM
Bob Shaw Bill:
Your links, er, don't!
Bob Shaw Aug 31 2005, 11:28 AM
Mongo That's strange; I just clicked on them and the... Aug 31 2005, 02:45 PM
Bob Shaw QUOTE (Mongo @ Aug 31 2005, 03:45 PM)That... Aug 31 2005, 03:42 PM
Mongo QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Aug 31 2005, 03:42 PM)I pro... Aug 31 2005, 03:57 PM
The Messenger I am at least as interested in the flight path ecc... Aug 31 2005, 06:56 PM
antoniseb QUOTE (The Messenger @ Aug 31 2005, 01:56 PM)... Aug 31 2005, 09:58 PM
dvandorn Hmmm... well, the effect must be very, very minor ... Aug 31 2005, 07:24 PM
Richard Trigaux Thanks to recent posters this thread took an inter... Sep 3 2005, 09:07 AM
jamescanvin QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 3 2005, 07:07 PM... Sep 5 2005, 12:13 AM
Richard Trigaux A rather interesting prospective explanation of th... Sep 3 2005, 10:07 AM
remcook some people seem to agree and applied for funding ... Sep 3 2005, 10:18 AM
The Messenger Richard's proposed test of the Pioneer Anomaly... Sep 3 2005, 05:00 PM
Richard Trigaux Messenger,
my idea was intended to detect a gravi... Sep 4 2005, 07:03 AM
Richard Trigaux The LISA observatory project will use three test m... Sep 5 2005, 08:57 AM
The Messenger All of these approaches use assumptions we should ... Sep 5 2005, 04:28 PM
jamescanvin Heading off topic but...
QUOTE (The Messenger ... Sep 6 2005, 12:17 AM
The Messenger QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Sep 5 2005, 05:17 PM)Hea... Sep 6 2005, 05:53 AM
Richard Trigaux Thanks jamescanvin for the image and the info it c... Sep 6 2005, 06:37 AM
jamescanvin QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 6 2005, 04:37 PM... Sep 7 2005, 12:27 AM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Sep 7 2005, 12:27 AM)Yes... Sep 7 2005, 05:42 AM
dvandorn Once again, I'm asking a question that I proba... Sep 7 2005, 07:36 AM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 7 2005, 07:36 AM)Does a... Sep 7 2005, 10:28 AM
The Messenger QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 7 2005, 03:28 AM... Sep 8 2005, 06:21 PM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 8 2005, 06:21 PM)I... Sep 9 2005, 07:21 AM
The Messenger QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 9 2005, 12:21 AM... Sep 12 2005, 01:49 PM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 12 2005, 01:49 PM)... Sep 12 2005, 02:23 PM
The Messenger QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 12 2005, 07:23 A... Sep 12 2005, 06:56 PM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 12 2005, 06:56 PM)... Sep 13 2005, 10:15 AM
ljk4-1 QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 13 2005, 05:15 A... Sep 13 2005, 01:17 PM
edstrick I'd have to check, but I think the Apollo 17 i... Sep 7 2005, 08:22 AM
Bob Shaw QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 7 2005, 09:22 AM)The in... Sep 7 2005, 09:42 AM

dvandorn QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Sep 7 2005, 04:42 AM)Oooh, ... Sep 7 2005, 06:33 PM

Bob Shaw QUOTE (dvandorn @ Sep 7 2005, 07:33 PM)Oh, th... Sep 7 2005, 08:47 PM
dvandorn QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 7 2005, 03:22 AM)I... Sep 7 2005, 06:41 PM
edstrick When the gravimeter was proposed, selected and des... Sep 7 2005, 10:38 AM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 7 2005, 10:38 AM)When t... Sep 7 2005, 02:38 PM
edstrick "From what I understand, though, even with th... Sep 8 2005, 10:49 AM
edstrick It has been hoped that cosmic sources of gravitati... Sep 9 2005, 07:45 AM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (edstrick @ Sep 9 2005, 07:45 AM)As far... Sep 9 2005, 08:17 AM
The Messenger Suggestions, by anyone, of engineering on this sca... Sep 13 2005, 04:16 PM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 13 2005, 04:16 PM)... Sep 13 2005, 06:06 PM
Richard Trigaux Messenger, yes the Earth does have a "gravita... Sep 14 2005, 03:46 PM
ljk4-1 http://www.issi.unibe.ch/teams/Pioneer/
The Pione... Oct 3 2005, 04:46 AM
edstrick ljk4-1: "...The Pioneer Explorer Collaboratio... Oct 3 2005, 07:15 AM
Richard Trigaux Thanks ljk4-1 for your interesting contribution. A... Oct 3 2005, 08:15 AM
deglr6328 sooooo did the planetary soc. get the data or what... Oct 3 2005, 09:53 AM
elakdawalla QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Oct 3 2005, 02:53 AM)soooo... Nov 10 2005, 01:29 AM
ljk4-1 QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Nov 9 2005, 08:29 PM) We... Nov 10 2005, 02:33 PM
elakdawalla QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Nov 10 2005, 07:33 AM)De... Nov 10 2005, 04:46 PM
edstrick <grin> by "anomaly" I mean an ord... Oct 3 2005, 09:57 AM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (edstrick @ Oct 3 2005, 09:57 AM)<gr... Oct 3 2005, 12:40 PM
edstrick Aliens?... I thought it was the CIA and FBI.... or... Oct 4 2005, 06:27 AM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (edstrick @ Oct 4 2005, 06:27 AM)Aliens... Oct 4 2005, 07:37 AM
edstrick You know what the problem is with make-believe par... Oct 4 2005, 10:51 AM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (edstrick @ Oct 4 2005, 10:51 AM)You kn... Oct 4 2005, 04:41 PM
ljk4-1 Astrophysics, abstract
astro-ph/0504367
From: Gary... Oct 4 2005, 07:35 PM
ljk4-1 Paper: astro-ph/0506281
replaced with revised ve... Oct 26 2005, 02:08 PM
ljk4-1 Paper (*cross-listing*): gr-qc/0511026
Date: Sun... Nov 9 2005, 04:32 PM
Myran Calculations using the 'MOND' theory (Modi... Nov 9 2005, 09:10 PM
Richard Trigaux I wonder if we could do any theory of any kind, ad... Nov 9 2005, 09:21 PM
mike That's what a theory is. Nov 9 2005, 09:42 PM
Myran QUOTE Richard Trigaux said: I wonder if we could d... Nov 10 2005, 05:21 AM
lyford Call me old fashioned, but I am a bit wary of jett... Nov 10 2005, 06:41 AM
The Messenger QUOTE (lyford @ Nov 9 2005, 11:41 PM)Call me ... Nov 10 2005, 04:44 PM
lyford QUOTE (The Messenger @ Nov 10 2005, 08:44 AM)... Nov 10 2005, 10:06 PM
ljk4-1 Astrophysics, abstract
astro-ph/0505310
From: Mic... Dec 20 2005, 04:05 PM
ljk4-1 General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology, abstract... Jan 3 2006, 02:31 AM
tfisher I just read through the last paper linked. They... Jan 3 2006, 07:10 AM
ljk4-1 Paper: astro-ph/0504367
Date (v1): Sun, 17 Apr 20... Jan 4 2006, 06:18 PM
tasp I bet it is not as simple as this, but I will pos... Jan 5 2006, 04:14 AM
mchan QUOTE (tasp @ Jan 4 2006, 08:14 PM)Any possib... Jan 5 2006, 06:06 AM
ugordan QUOTE (mchan @ Jan 5 2006, 07:06 AM)One probl... Jan 5 2006, 08:52 AM
Bob Shaw QUOTE (ugordan @ Jan 5 2006, 09:52 AM)Wasn... Jan 5 2006, 01:16 PM
ljk4-1 Can New Horizons participate in this experiment? ... Jan 5 2006, 02:22 PM
djellison QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Jan 5 2006, 02:22 PM)Can... Jan 5 2006, 02:43 PM
ugordan QUOTE (djellison @ Jan 5 2006, 03:43 PM)That... Jan 5 2006, 02:50 PM
tasp If an objection to putting a Voyager into a slow s... Jan 5 2006, 02:45 PM
djellison Damn good point actually UG - hadnt thought of tha... Jan 5 2006, 02:58 PM
ugordan QUOTE (djellison @ Jan 5 2006, 03:58 PM)Then ... Jan 5 2006, 03:05 PM
NMRguy QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Feb 23 2005, 09:20 AM)Yes... Jan 5 2006, 05:19 PM
AlexBlackwell QUOTE (NMRguy @ Jan 5 2006, 05:19 PM)Alan add... Jan 5 2006, 05:56 PM
tty QUOTE (ugordan @ Jan 5 2006, 05:05 PM)Might h... Jan 5 2006, 06:47 PM![]() ![]() |
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