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Complete Science Data Of Galileo Probe Mission?
Dominik
post Sep 8 2005, 07:56 AM
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Hello there.

I've got a question about the science data of the galileo probe mission (Plunge into jupiters atmosphere).

Is it possible to download the complete dataset of the mission? If yes, where can I find those data? I've tried to find them with google, but I found nothing. sad.gif

Thx for help...

(Sorry for my bad english. I don't use it so often, because I'm from germany wink.gif)


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DDAVIS
post Sep 8 2005, 11:20 AM
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[quote=Dominik,Sep 8 2005, 07:56 AM]
Hello there.

I've got a question about the science data of the galileo probe mission (Plunge into jupiters atmosphere).

Is it possible to download the complete dataset of the mission? If yes, where can I find those data? I've tried to find them with google, but I found nothing. sad.gif

Such a data set would be just what I need, for I would like to create an updated animation of the probe enviornment in scaled time showing probe motions, atmospheric opacity changes, and light levels. I made a detailed digital model of the probe for a Sky and telescope illo, which I would use in such a project. I animated the probe entry and descent in a traditional animation (film and painted cels) for Ames, which I still see in various space shows.

Don Davis
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djellison
post Sep 8 2005, 11:29 AM
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I was actually thinking, when looking at a chart that John Zarnecki had of the tilt angle of the huygens probe on the way down to titan that it's a shame we've not seen the same treatment that we saw for the MER EDl sequence, applied to previous Entry sequences.

I dare say it could technically be done manually in an animation package - but it would be a nightmare.

If the Galileo stuff is anywhere -it'll be here
http://atmos.nmsu.edu/PDS/data/gp_0001/

Doug
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ljk4-1
post Sep 8 2005, 12:58 PM
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Budgets and all the technicals problems Galileo had aside, would it have been feasible to put a camera on the Galileo atmosphere probe (and why didn't it ever get a separate name?)?

Just imagine the vistas it would have captured. Maybe even the giant floating gas bag life forms drifting by, sifting in their version of krill....

http://davidszondy.com/future/otherworlds/...ets/jupiter.htm


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djellison
post Sep 8 2005, 01:02 PM
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Feasable perhaps, but fairly pointless I'd have thought. You know that bit on a plane flight when you're going thru the clouds and you cant see the end of the wing..... smile.gif

That - plus the bandwidth from probe-to-orbiter was fairly poor I'd imagine, much like Huygens was.

Doug
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Dominik
post Sep 8 2005, 03:04 PM
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QUOTE (djellison @ Sep 8 2005, 02:02 PM)
...the bandwidth from probe-to-orbiter was fairly poor I'd imagine, much like Huygens was.
*


3.8 Megabit of data was collected. Mostly scientific data from jupiters atmosphere. But I've seen some pictures from the galileo probe mission on TV some years ago. Those pictures were from the cloud structures (Below cloud top). They looked like radar pictures, but the probe did not have a radar. blink.gif

Thanks for the link djellison. That is, what I was searching for.


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djellison
post Sep 8 2005, 03:09 PM
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Wow - 3.8 megabits over a couple of hours - that's really poor sad.gif Imagine the sacrifices for other instruments if they'd just have had something as simple as the Huygens camera suite onboard.

Like many misisons I'd like to see, and places I'd like cameras to go - the cloud tops of Jupiter for instance...we're just not quite at the technical level to do it at anything like a reasonable budget really.

Doug
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Dominik
post Sep 8 2005, 04:30 PM
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I think, that a camera would have been crushed by jupiters dense atmosphere. But imagine the pictures from below the clouds. They must be amazing! ohmy.gif

I hope, that the next mission to jupiter would contain a probe with cameras on board.

By the way, the duration of the mission was 58 minutes.


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ljk4-1
post Sep 8 2005, 04:34 PM
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QUOTE (Dominik @ Sep 8 2005, 11:30 AM)
I think, that a camera would have been crushed by jupiters dense atmosphere. But imagine the pictures from below the clouds. They must be amazing!  ohmy.gif

I hope, that the next mission to jupiter would contain a probe with cameras on board.

By the way, the duration of the mission was 58 minutes.
*


While I certainly knew that the probe would not survive very deeply into Jupiter's atmosphere, it probably would have had a few clear zones to image in - just imagine what vistas it would have recorded for us.

So if we made a probe out of carbon buckyballs and ultra-titanium, how deep and how long do you think it would last?


--------------------
"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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DDAVIS
post Sep 8 2005, 04:42 PM
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[quote=Dominik,Sep 8 2005, 04:30 PM]
I think, that a camera would have been crushed by jupiters dense atmosphere. But imagine the pictures from below the clouds. They must be amazing! ohmy.gif

I hope, that the next mission to jupiter would contain a probe with cameras on board.

Absolutely, there may be things of interest for atmospheric scientists to see in such images far more rewarding than the 'squiggly line science' supplied by past such technology. Seeing the SRB videos as they pass through the atmosphere to the ocean whets my appitite to see similar views on the way down in other worlds, even with one color NTSC resolution frame a minute! In a discussion in the 'planetary Sciences' group hardly anyone seemed interested in putting cameras on gas giant probes, perhaps there is a 'mentality of poverty' on such things.

Don
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JRehling
post Sep 8 2005, 04:44 PM
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QUOTE (Dominik @ Sep 8 2005, 08:04 AM)
3.8 Megabit of data was collected. Mostly scientific data from jupiters atmosphere. But I've seen some pictures from the galileo probe mission on TV some years ago. Those pictures were from the cloud structures (Below cloud top). They looked like radar pictures, but the probe did not have a radar.  blink.gif

Thanks for the link djellison. That is, what I was searching for.
*


The subcloud "pictures" I think you are referring to were reconstructed images based on models made from the Galileo *Orbiter*. Images made in different methane bands bring out detail from different depths. Those "visualizations" assumed that the clouds form three discrete thin sheets with clear air between them. Then they were colored. You can see lots of them here:

http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/sepo/atju...s/latitude.html

A descent probe into Jupiter has such limited bandwidth opportunity, and such limited payload mass, with such uncertain prospects for seeing *anything* that it is hard to rationalize a camera. The Galileo Probe instrument payload was about 25 kg or a bit more than that. Huygens's camera was 8.5 kg -- what third of Galileo's payload would you have gotten rid of to get what might be one or two totally featureless pictures, and even in a good case might have looked like BW pictures of terrestrial cumulus clouds?
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Dominik
post Sep 8 2005, 05:10 PM
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QUOTE (JRehling @ Sep 8 2005, 05:44 PM)
Those "visualizations" assumed that the clouds form three discrete thin sheets with clear air between them. Then they were colored. You can see lots of them here:

http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo/sepo/atju...s/latitude.html

*


I saw exactly those pictures on TV. Amazing! ohmy.gif

NASA has so many great pictures, the problem is to find them. Sometimes it's not so easy... dry.gif


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DDAVIS
post Sep 8 2005, 05:18 PM
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A descent probe into Jupiter has such limited bandwidth opportunity, and such limited payload mass, with such uncertain prospects for seeing *anything* that it is hard to rationalize a camera. The Galileo Probe instrument payload was about 25 kg or a bit more than that. Huygens's camera was 8.5 kg -- what third of Galileo's payload would you have gotten rid of to get what might be one or two totally featureless pictures, and even in a good case might have looked like BW pictures of terrestrial cumulus clouds?

Well, future probes may well have better data bandwidth than what you are used to. I don't see uncertainty about what a camera would see as good reason to assume a camera isn't desirable.

this may be apocrophal but I recall in my USGS days hearing talk about a debate on whether the Pioneer F abd G spacecraft should have any imaging capability at all, after all, what could possibly be interesting about cloud tops? As it was the imaging Photopolerimeter was a cheap crappy substitute for a camera which was better than nothing, but outclassed by the real cameras the Voyagerws later carried.

Don
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ElkGroveDan
post Sep 8 2005, 05:28 PM
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QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Sep 8 2005, 04:34 PM)
So if we made a probe out of carbon buckyballs and ultra-titanium, how deep and how long do you think it would last?
*

Much longer than the camera wink.gif


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ljk4-1
post Sep 8 2005, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE (DDAVIS @ Sep 8 2005, 12:18 PM)
this may be apocrophal but I recall in my USGS days hearing talk about a debate on whether the Pioneer F abd G spacecraft should have any imaging capability at all, after all, what could possibly be interesting about cloud tops? As it was the imaging Photopolerimeter was a cheap crappy substitute for a camera which was better than nothing, but outclassed by the real cameras the Voyagerws later carried.

  Don
*


They also assumed the Mercury astronauts wouldn't want to look out a window of their spacecraft, either.

Nothing sells space exploration like optical images.

As for a camera on an Jupiter atmosphere probe, how about an infrared one for cutting through the haze and clouds?


--------------------
"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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