Ring Spokes Appearing? Options

[Guest_Sunspot_*]

Take a look at these images. Im not sure whether it might be "lens flare", which i've seen in quite a few images, or perhaps something else. What do you think?

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/imag...eiImageID=49058

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/imag...eiImageID=49059

[Jyril]

I think you're might be right.

In the second image with Saturn's limb (?) the rings are viewed from a different angle, showing clearly that the light whisps are related to the rings. They have also remained in the same position relative to the rings. They can't be lens flares or image artefacts.

[elakdawalla]

This was an opportunity I could not pass up -- I opened the images and took them out to two rings people here in the foyer at the DPS meeting, and they both got very excited about them. There are indications that something may be forthcoming from ISS about this already but it's all very hush-hush. There are still people in the poster session right now with posters explaining why spokes haven't been seen yet!

The rings sessions are tomorrow morning. I wonder if anything will be said there.

Anyway, stay tuned...

--Emily

[Guest_Sunspot_*]

COOL !!! Keep us upto date, hehe

[Rob Pinnegar]

I imagine that, from the point of view of the folks on the imaging team, this is a pretty good argument in favour of occasionally keeping an eye on these forums when time permits. Although most of us obviously don't have as strong a grasp of the subject material as they do, my guess is that, collectively, we probably are more numerous.

With so many Cassini images being available on the main site, it stands to reason that from time to time one of us will spot something that has been overlooked for one reason or another.

Good eyes, Sunspot.

[volcanopele]

I can promise you that members of the imaging team do lurk on sites like this one (not just me), maybe not to check on what others may have found, but to see if news has gotten out with the raw jpegs available on line.

[alan]

Interesting timing, ring spokes are spotted just before Cassini's orbit is realligned with the ring-plane. We won't be able to see them again for nearly a year.

[um3k]

Interesting timing, ring spokes are spotted just before Cassini's orbit is realligned with the ring-plane. We won't be able to see them again for nearly a year.

Obviously, there is an advanced species in the Saturn system that uses ring spokes as a mode of communication. The Voyagers caught them by surprise, so they didn't get a chance to hide them. However, they were prepared for Cassini, and have been able to keep from using the spokes up until recently. All I can figure is that they have an urgent message that must get out, or they mis-timed Cassini's return to the ring plane. Either way, we caught them!

[Guest_Richard Trigaux_*]

I imagine that, from the point of view of the folks on the imaging team, this is a pretty good argument in favour of occasionally keeping an eye on these forums when time permits. Although most of us obviously don't have as strong a grasp of the subject material as they do, my guess is that, collectively, we probably are more numerous.

With so many Cassini images being available on the main site, it stands to reason that from time to time one of us will spot something that has been overlooked for one reason or another.

Good eyes, Sunspot.

This is why amateurs astronomers can play a role in the whole story.
Remember that many comets or asteroids were discovered by amateurs, including on images from professional observatories or satellites. In some cases even professionals ask for the help of amateurs. Professional astronomers are bound by their funding, sometimes they cannot do certain things because they have no time alloted for them.

[elakdawalla]

Especially nowadays, with missions returning SO much data, I think amateur eyes are going to become increasingly important. Anyone in "the business" who stops a moment to think about the fantastic amount of data that is going to be returned from Mars Recon Oriter just goggles. They know that the team can't look at it all by themselves. There's got to be a way that the power of all these amateur eyes can be harnessed to help spot interesting stuff in the data.

Ring sessions at DPS start in a couple minutes--I'm on my way over!

--Emily

[elakdawalla]

Update from DPS:

Jeff Cuzzi (rings interdisciplinary scientist for Cassini) just gave an introductory talk about the rings, only briefly mentioning spokes. After his talk, someone, I don't know who, asked: "I have heard that the spokes have reappeared in the last two days." Jeff said only "I have heard that too, and that [reappearance] may constrain models" for how the spokes form. Very, very carefully quiet. I expect we will be seeing a big splash from ISS before too long, but the poor guys are also swamped with their T7 data coming down and to make it worse all the biggest players are here and are probably traveling tonight and tomorrow so everything's probably a bit chaotic...

Also, just to clarify something, the rings people I spoke with last night had already heard through other channels that the spokes may have reappeared. But they hadn't seen the pictures yet.

--Emily

[David]

What are those things? Examining the images closely, all I can see is that on some of the lighter rings there is a notable increase in brightness, which appears to be arranged in two rays radiating out from approximately the planetary center. But it seems too far-fetched to assume that some weird force is rearranging or reorienting the actual material of the rings in such a way that they reflect more light. Could it be that some material is being deposited on or just above the surface of the ring plane that is more reflective than the rest of the rings? Is it possible that there is some mechanism for redistributing material into or among the rings?

[djellison]

I was thinking perhaps visualisation of field lines courtesy of charged particles?

Doug

[odave]

There's got to be a way that the power of all these amateur eyes can be harnessed to help spot interesting stuff in the data.
--Emily

Something like this in astronomy is the American Association of Variable Star Observers (AAVSO). There are a lot of variable stars out there - more than pro's can deal with. Amateur astronomers who belong to AAVSO are assigned a variable star (or stars) to observe every time they get a chance. Each time they look at the star, they record its magnitude (or brightness). Over time, a "light curve" is generated from their observations that can characterize the star's behavior. This data can then be passed on to the professional scientists, who don't have the time or the equipment to do the observational "grunt work".

The important thing about AAVSO is that it organizes and standardizes the observations and the data, so that the product the pro's get isn't just a random collection of non-uniform stuff from potentially unreliable sources.

Similar to AAVSO is ALPO, which specializes in lunar and planetary observation.

I could see something like AAVSO or ALPO for us planetary image junkies - a central clearing house that collects, standardizes, and organizes image analysis by amateurs to be passed up to the pro's. Probably a lot of work for those who run it, but it would be a valuable (and fun) tool!

[djellison]

A friend of mine relied on AAVSO observations as part of his thesis into Cataclysmic Variables. He's an X-ray astronomer now, but the visual reports really helped.


Doug