Europa Orbiter, Speculation, updates and discussion Options

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

No "fiscal windfall", true. But it strikes me as an exaggeration to say that NASA would "not continue" without a major manned flight component. After all, the things keeping NASA going are (1) its actual valid justifications, and (2) its pork value -- and the latter includes spending on unmanned as well as manned projects. No doubt NASA's total budget would shrink, but it's very implausible that it would "not continue" -- instead, a lot of the Congressional and Presidential hunt for politically useful space pork would be transferred to the unmanned space program, leading to some degree of increase in spending the latter, and quite possibly a large one.

But that takes us to the obvious next question: what if NASA SHOULD vanish, and what if the unmanned space science program should also be radically shrunk after the manned program is eliminated, on the grounds that most space science projects are appallingly low in scientific cost-effectiveness compared to spending on other types of scientific research? We ourselves would certainly regret that, but you would have a hard time coming up with a morally convincing argument against it.

It's hardly surprising, however, that Plescia is pushing the manned program for all he's worth -- he has always done so, although virtually the only argument he's ever been able to come up with for the science value of humans rather than robots on the Moon is that the latter would have more trouble doing deep drilling operations.

[ljk4-1]

Planetary Society Charges Administration with Blurring its Vision for Space Exploration

The Planetary Society Cites Cancelled Plans for a Europa and Other Science Missions

Pasadena, CA, — The NASA Budget released today shortchanges space science in order to fund 17 projected space shuttle flights. Despite recent spectacular results from NASA's science programs, this budget puts the brakes on their growth within the agency. It seriously damages the hugely productive and successful robotic exploration of our solar system and beyond.

According to this budget, flight projects that were already underway, such as the Space Interferometry Mission, will be delayed. Others, such as the Terrestrial Planet Finder and a mission to Jupiter's moon Europa, will be deferred indefinitely. Furthermore, the new budget slashes funding for the fundamental space science that makes such missions possible and turns raw data into discoveries.

http://www.planetary.org/about/press/relea...ty_Charges.html

[Decepticon]

Outrage

[RNeuhaus]

Maybe, there will more robot exploration between Earth and Moon. These will be the first robots as a model to conquer to other planets. I bet after that, there will be a leap technology to explore others bodies of our solar system. It is a just a change of aim but the robot technology will continue improving and the there will be no lost time.

Rodolfo

[nprev]

Outrage

Agreed.

Bet things would be different if JSC & KSC were located in states other than Texas & Florida, respectively...

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

I suppose I do have something to thank LBJ on in this respect -- even if he was the one who almost single-handedly persuaded JFK to launch the Moon Race (while telling his own friends that he had done so mostly to provide economic pork for the South). The Manned Spacecraft Center was originally supposed to be built in Vallejo, California before he rediverted it to Houston. Had he not done so, it would have been my own state's Senators who were constantly making dishonest jackasses of themselves on the subject of manned space exploration.

[Jeff7]

Planetary Society Charges Administration with Blurring its Vision for Space Exploration

The Planetary Society Cites Cancelled Plans for a Europa and Other Science Missions

Pasadena, CA, — The NASA Budget released today shortchanges space science in order to fund 17 projected space shuttle flights. Despite recent spectacular results from NASA's science programs, this budget puts the brakes on their growth within the agency.  It seriously damages the hugely productive and successful robotic exploration of our solar system and beyond.

According to this budget, flight projects that were already underway, such as the Space Interferometry Mission, will be delayed. Others, such as the Terrestrial Planet Finder and a mission to Jupiter's moon Europa, will be deferred indefinitely. Furthermore, the new budget slashes funding for the fundamental space science that makes such missions possible and turns raw data into discoveries.

http://www.planetary.org/about/press/relea...ty_Charges.html

Dear ESA,
As you are aware, our current administration has some "issues" with our space budget. Please consider a sophisticated robotic mission to Europa. I mean really, Europe, Europa - the PR writes itself!
Thank you,
Jeff

[ljk4-1]

Spaceflight:

* Europa Mission: Lost In NASA Budget

http://www.space.com/news/060207_europa_budget.html

NASA's newly issued budget has lowered a flagship mission of exploration to
half-mast. Backed by scientists and study groups, a mission to Jupiter's moon
Europa is missing in action within the pages of NASA's Fiscal Year 2007 budget
unveiled yesterday.

Interesting quotes:

One additional payload on Europa Explorer: a simple lander.

Pappalardo said a lander is still being bandied about, but carrying what kind of technology and at what cost are questions awaiting answers.

“We’re not going to search for life with this mission. But just like the Mars rovers in their search for habitable environments…we’re going to characterize the habitability of Europa,” Pappalardo said.

An orbiter to the moon of Jupiter would allow a now sketchy view to become sharp as to how this world works, Pappalardo concluded. This mission, he said, has compelling science and broad community support and “we’re ready to go.”

and:

Also, the European Space Agency (ESA) is currently studying the Jovian Minisat Explorer (JME). The JME focuses on exploration of the Jovian system and particularly the exploration of its moon Europa. The ESA study is also looking into deploying a compact microprobe onto Europa to perform on-the-spot measurement of the moon’s ice crust.


* NASA Seeks 30-Percent Increase for Exploration Program

http://www.space.com/news/060206_nasa_budget.html

Efforts to replace the space shuttle fleet with new Moon-bound spacecraft would
receive big spending increases under NASA's 2007 budget request, while nearly
every other part of the U.S. space agency's budget would be held flat or
decline.


* SPACE NEWS: Policy or Politics? NASA Accused of Intimidating Climatologist

http://www.space.com/spacenews/businessmonday_060206.html

NASA is battling accusations that it tried to stifle its top climatologist, a
man well known for speaking his mind about the causes and consequences of global warming.

[Redstone]

Remember this budget is just a request. Congress has the final decision on how much gets allocated to NASA. For several cycles, the Administration allocated no money to New Horizons, but Congress funded it anyway, and now it is on its way to Pluto. And it was Congress that told NASA to prepare to start a Europa mission last year. I would not be surprised if some small part of the 30% boost to ESMD is shaved off and tranferred for a Europa mission. The same goes for SIM. The important thing is that the scientists, advocacy groups and media push for it. That looks to be happening.

[vexgizmo]

National Geographic:
NASA Budget Diverts Funds From Science to Spaceships
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...60208_nasa.html

See my post in
Policy and Strategy > The Creature That Ate Nasa Takes Another Big Bite
as to what you might be able to do to help remind Congress about Europa.

[JRehling]

Let me suggest a conspiracy theory behind the EO cancelation. While money is sure to be tight, and an axe is going to be aimed somewhere, the choice of EO and TPF may have been performed by someone who wanted to see as little as possible in the way of cuts and reckoned slyly that those two missions are most likely to get a reprieve (by Congressional fiat). If so, putting them in harm's way, which they will, as my theory goes, escape, leads to the least eventual cuts, because putting some other projects in harm's way might have been harder to reverse.

In other words, the sort of campaign that saved NH is not to be considered an extraordinary follow-on to "the system", but part of the de facto system. And in some sense, these missions aren't in jeopardy until a similar movement fails to save them. Warm oceans nearby and earthlike worlds far off should perk some interest, what say...

[Guest_Analyst_*]

I hope you are right.

[gpurcell]

Let me suggest a conspiracy theory behind the EO cancelation. While money is sure to be tight, and an axe is going to be aimed somewhere, the choice of EO and TPF may have been performed by someone who wanted to see as little as possible in the way of cuts and reckoned slyly that those two missions are most likely to get a reprieve (by Congressional fiat). If so, putting them in harm's way, which they will, as my theory goes, escape, leads to the least eventual cuts, because putting some other projects in harm's way might have been harder to reverse.

In other words, the sort of campaign that saved NH is not to be considered an extraordinary follow-on to "the system", but part of the de facto system. And in some sense, these missions aren't in jeopardy until a similar movement fails to save them. Warm oceans nearby and earthlike worlds far off should perk some interest, what say...

Yeah, that was my thought as well. THe old "close the Washington Monument" trick.

[elakdawalla]

Yeah, that was my thought as well.  THe old "close the Washington Monument" trick.

We've always been pretty sure that that's what's going on with the Voyager 'cancellation.' But I think Europa and TPF are different. Europa, at least, will need to be a big, big mission, and it's just not going to work to "save" it every year by congressional action. It really needs to be built in to NASA's very long term plans over more than one decade. Engineers and particularly scientists will need to devote large chunks of their professional careers to getting it going, and despite people's devotion to Europa, I think it would be awfully hard to take the risk to your career to devote so much professional time and energy to a mission that is at risk of being cancelled every year. New Horizons was hard enough to do that way, and it is a much simpler mission. NASA has got to make a long-term commitment to Europa for a mission to work.

--Emily

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

I agree with Emily. These proposals are simply too big to be subject to this kind of subterfuge to preserve them. Moreover, Congress has already made it clear (with justification) that they are not going to spend any more on NASA as a whole - and the Administration has made it clear that it considers manned spaceflight much more important than unmanned spaceflight and space science.

As for WHY the Administration considers it so much more important -- well, we just got another clue yesterday, when the House GOP (as a consolation prize to Tom DeLay for getting the boot as House leader) gave him seats both on the Appropriations Committee, and on the subcommittee which oversees the Justice Department (which of course is currently investigating DeLay himself) and which also (as a result of DeLay's recent redesign of the House committee system) controls NASA. (The Manned Spacecraft Center is of course now in DeLay's district, and that earlier Washington Post article hinted that he was already the main figure keeping Shuttle/ISS from being trimmed back):
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060208/ap_on_...wBHNlYwN5bmNhdA

Both the White House and the GOP are still terrified of DeLay -- he is, after all, the one who knows where all the bodies are buried in the gigantic nationwide Tweed Ring that the GOP has now set up in this country -- and it's a safe bet that they will continue to give him everything he wants, if they think they can get away with it, until the moment when he is either indicted or defeated for reelection. After he's gone, we may see some fairly major readjustments in the NASA budget as a side effect.