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Europa Orbiter, Speculation, updates and discussion
Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Nov 17 2005, 02:18 AM
Post #61





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Another description of the "Tour and Endgame" can be found on pg. 23-26 of the most detailed description of the original Europa Orbiter concept at http://outerplanets.larc.nasa.gov/outerpla.../Europa_MPD.pdf . (One nice recent development: calculations now indicate that the total radiation dose that EO will get during this mission is less than half of the originally estimated 4 megarads. This by itself lops 200 kg off the needed shielding weight, and thus about 400 kg off the total spacecraft weight.)
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Nov 17 2005, 02:18 AM
Post #62





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Also, you'll notice that the Endgame involves only about half a dozen Europa flybys, rather than a dozen as I stated above.
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ljk4-1
post Nov 17 2005, 12:40 PM
Post #63


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Perhaps this will require a separate topic, but what will it take to put a lander on Io? Just imagine what surface images will look like from there!


--------------------
"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Nov 17 2005, 01:18 PM
Post #64





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That will be a while coming -- the radiation level at Io is 30 times that at Europa!
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Roly
post Nov 17 2005, 02:29 PM
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Thanks for the replies about the orbiters - the constitute the most compelling explanation yet of why you don't bother with fly-by missions unless the target is exceptionally hard. I can see the political point is also important when there is a [F]lagship class mission looking for money (that's a capital 'F' for the large clas flagship that EO will doubtless end up being).

Counting the days until EO arrives. I wish Juno could do some science on the Galilean moons, but I guess that's totally not the point, given the orbit. New Horizons Jupiter encounter should be great.

Roly
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Nov 17 2005, 08:31 PM
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Yeah, it's been made clear to me by Scott Bolton that they don't WANT to fly Juno close to any of the Galilean moons, even if they get the chance. (Although I would presume that its camera could make some observations of Io's continuing activity.)

In fact, he's now made one interesting point that I had never thought of: Juno is definitely NOT going to have a long prolonged mission. It will have taken a considerable radiation dose by the end of its one-year primary mission, and they want to make sure it doesn't break down before they have a chance to deliberately crash it into Jupiter to make sure it doesn't eventually hit Europa. He's talking about an extended mission of -- at most -- one month, and they will in fact be monitoring its behavior carefully on the chance that they may have to end its mission a little ahead of schedule. (A landslide majority of its useful science will have been done by the first 6 months.)

This one is scientifically aimed at Jupiter -- period -- and (like Mars Climate Orbiter had it succeeded) it's going to do very little that will be of interest to the general public.

By the way, its launch has definitely been bumped now into July 2010 or August 2011.
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Marslauncher
post Nov 30 2005, 02:05 AM
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Is the Europa Orbiter Still on? on was it replaced by Juno?

Just saw a program on Science Channel that mentioned it
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Decepticon
post Nov 30 2005, 02:09 AM
Post #68


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You know this is very confusing lately. I was gonna suggest a area on this board with a listings of approved missions and future mission as well as canceled/on ice missions.
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Nov 30 2005, 02:34 AM
Post #69





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No, Juno AND the Europa orbiter (under its new name, "Europa Geophysical Explorer") are both planned, although EGE won't get its official program start until 2007.

However, one thing that is on hold for now is the previous plan for a Deep Jupiter Multiprobe mission, for which they won't give any go-ahead until they examine the Juno results -- that is, not for quite a while (since Juno won't arrive till 2016). There has recently been a very dramatic, but apparently firm, change in the science community's attitude toward the giant-planet entry probe program, which is yet another item in my "Astronomy" article that I must leave dangling for now.
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odave
post Nov 30 2005, 03:08 AM
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QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Nov 29 2005, 09:34 PM)
which is yet another item in my "Astronomy" article that I must leave dangling for now.
*


"Astronomy" needs to pay you a sales commission, Bruce smile.gif

Any news on what issue your article will appear in?


--------------------
--O'Dave
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Guest_AlexBlackwell_*
post Nov 30 2005, 08:52 PM
Post #71





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QUOTE (odave @ Nov 30 2005, 03:08 AM)
"Astronomy" needs to pay you a sales commission, Bruce  smile.gif

Or deduct from what they've paid him since he's dropping so many hints tongue.gif

Seriously, though, it's a good thing he didn't submit the article to Science or Nature because his comments here, as helpful and useful as they are to the forum, might constitute "prior publication," which both journals use as grounds for rejection or refusal to publish.
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Dec 1 2005, 12:27 AM
Post #72





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My article will be appearing in either the February or March issue. Unfortunately, I ended up with enough material to write a 9.5 page article (AFTER extensive trimming), and so the editors will be hacking it down to 4 pages -- and I'm not sure what complete sections they're going to cut out to do so. I will, at any rate, try to get "SpaceDaily" to publish whatever info "Astronomy" doesn't; and anything relevant that gets cut out there will get put into this blog at some point, rest assured.
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mars loon
post Dec 2 2005, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 1 2005, 12:27 AM)
My article will be appearing in either the February or March issue.  Unfortunately, I ended up with enough material to write a 9.5 page article (AFTER extensive trimming), and so the editors will be hacking it down to 4 pages -- and I'm not sure what complete sections they're going to cut out to do so. 
*

Too bad about the extensive cuts. did you learn that after it was already written?
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Bob Shaw
post Dec 2 2005, 11:59 PM
Post #74


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QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 1 2005, 01:27 AM)
My article will be appearing in either the February or March issue.  Unfortunately, I ended up with enough material to write a 9.5 page article (AFTER extensive trimming), and so the editors will be hacking it down to 4 pages -- and I'm not sure what complete sections they're going to cut out to do so.  I will, at any rate, try to get "SpaceDaily" to publish whatever info "Astronomy" doesn't; and anything relevant that gets cut out there will get put into this blog at some point, rest assured.
*


Bruce:

Perhaps it was a slip of the keyboard, but the word 'blog' caught my attention. Do you produce one? Do you have *time* to produce one?

I'm sure we'd all be fascinated, were you to do so - even when we (quietly) disagree with you, your comments on the unmanned spaceflight scene are without peer!

Bob Shaw


--------------------
Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Dec 3 2005, 11:18 AM
Post #75





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Nope, no blog -- I've never quite had the time and/or the nerve. (One recent "New Yorker" cartoon shows one dog telling another: "I considered starting a blog, but I finally just decided to go in for pointless barking instead.")

As for the article, they told me from the start that 4 pages was the length. The trouble is that whenever I attend one of these damn conferences, I get enough interesting material for SEVERAL articles, and then go through the torments of hell trying desperately to hack a 12 to 15-page article down to a few pages while the article bleeds and screams piteously. As with my 2004 article on the MER-A landing for "Astronomy", I finally just had to throw myself on the mercy of the editors by submitting an oversized article and letting them do the dirty work. (A far cry from those bright college days when I was straining desperately to inflate puny term papers.)
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