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Shoreline On Titan: Best Evidence Yet
Palomar
post Sep 17 2005, 12:28 PM
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Best evidence yet

*...for a shoreline on Titan; they're calling it "dramatic." Area measures 1,060 by 106 miles. Is from Cassini radar, obtained during the latest flyby. Speculation continues regarding seepage of liquid from the ground/ground springs and/or rainfall.
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Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Sep 20 2005, 03:05 PM
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Actually, I believe you're right -- on thinking more about it, I believe that I have more provided an explanation for why Titan MAY be the way it so far appears to be to Cassini, rather than an explanation for why it MUST be that way.

The fact that both the evaporation and precipitation rates of liquid methane on Titan must be very slow does not in itself provide any reason to think that there couldn't be large bodies of liquid methane actually on the surface. And -- aside from the radar maps so far -- the only evidence we have that there are not large surface seas of liquid methane is the fact that Titan's orbit is eccentric, which (as Lunine says in that "American Scientist" article) would seem to mean that its liquids must be in a subsurface aquifer that greatly reduces their ability to flow from one place to another in response to tides, since their free tidal flow on the surface would otherwise generate enough friction to have long since circularized Titan's orbit. But that conclusion has always been based on the belief that there is nothing else actively working to maintain the initial eccentricity of Titan's orbit -- and we now know that there is some force that does so, since that force must be providing the continuing influx of energy that drives Titan's continuing intense cryovolcanism. (The best theory I've seen is that the driving force is resonant tugs from Jupiter during its periodic movements past Saturn, because these are roughly synchronized with the periods of Titan's orbit around Saturn.)

So: I'm going to have to retract much of what I've been saying. So far, I've provided an explanation for why all of Titan COULD easily be the way the sample of it that we've seen so far appears to be: that is, almost devoid of surface liquid. But it remains entirely possible that there are fairly large bodies of surface liquid on some of the parts of Titan that we have not yet clearly viewed in any way.
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JRehling
post Sep 20 2005, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Sep 20 2005, 08:05 AM)
But it remains entirely possible that there are fairly large bodies of surface liquid on some of the parts of Titan that we have not yet clearly viewed in any way.
*


Note that Mezzoramia, the large dark feature in this "shoreline" RADAR image is much bigger than what the image shows, and in infrared imagery, shows darker regions farther to the south than T7 revealed. (And that would not have been corrected if the full swath had been recorded.)

A simple (and perhaps even true) interpretation would be that the darker areas are either the only areas with standing liquid, or host deeper liquid than the somewhat-dark areas, and that we have yet to see them with RADAR.

A huge question, and one that will not be answered for years is: What is the annual cloud cycle on Titan like? We know that the summer pole hosts frequent cloud patterns in a ring/patch around 80-90 degrees latitude. How does this transition through the equinoxes? Does the cloud "ring" slide across all latitudes as the subsolar latitude changes? Does it disappear at one pole and reappear at the other? How many of the 15 Earth years in a half Titan year does it last? Finally, is it even symmetical between north and south (I suspect yes).

The reason why this is relevant is that the clouds are the source of any occasion rains, and my take on Mezzoramia is that it is one of the respositories of the south summer rains (there may be other smaller ones, and perhaps another large one about 90 degrees of longitude to Mezzoramia's east). If we allow that a centimeter of rain can fall in a Titan year, but all of that ends up pouring into two basins the size of Mezzoramia, we would be talking about several meters of depth even if Mezzoramia is bone dry come springtime. Of course, it is also possible that it is full of liquid year round, and is merely replenished in summer.

A single well-designed flyby could align so as to place the specular point for sunlight into the middle of Mezzoramia's darkest region and image that place with ISS and/or VIMS. That is an easy conclusive test -- for the moment that such an image is taken. We won't be able to rule out that a place wet in 2005 may have become dry in 2009.

Assuming that Cassini lives way past its nominal mission, and that the northern seasons aren't too different from the southern, there'll be less of a rush to explore the issue in the north during its summer, 2010-2025. Some RADAR mapping could already be in hand by the equinox, and in any case, ISS should show us the whole north at modest resolution as soon as the geometry allows. I would not design an extended mission that didn't have contingencies for retargeting as the need to seek out specular-glint opportunities allowed. It would be unfortunate to see a northern Mezzoramia in 2011 and have to wait until 2014 to set up the right investigation.

One more thing to watch is for seasonal changes in IR bands. If darkest areas indicate liquid, then we can see if the southern dark areas shrink while the northern dark areas grow as the season shifts.
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Posts in this topic
- Palomar   Shoreline On Titan: Best Evidence Yet   Sep 17 2005, 12:28 PM
- - David   How does this square with previous assertions that...   Sep 17 2005, 01:09 PM
- - 4th rock from the sun   The liquids aren't there now, but they were pr...   Sep 17 2005, 02:37 PM
- - Jyril   Dark area on the radar image suggests the ground m...   Sep 17 2005, 05:19 PM
|- - Cugel   QUOTE (Jyril @ Sep 17 2005, 05:19 PM)Also, ra...   Sep 18 2005, 12:20 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   The solution to the apparent contradiction seems t...   Sep 17 2005, 07:00 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Sep 17 2005, 12:00 PM)Th...   Sep 18 2005, 06:22 AM
|- - imran   QUOTE (JRehling @ Sep 18 2005, 06:22 AM)The t...   Sep 18 2005, 06:58 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   A strong argument in favour of rare but heavy rain...   Sep 18 2005, 07:17 AM
|- - DFinfrock   [COLOR=blue]As Bruce MoomMaw wrote in Post #10: ...   Sep 20 2005, 02:34 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (DFinfrock @ Sep 20 2005, 02:34 AM)This...   Sep 20 2005, 07:13 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   The picture which is now forming pretty clearly of...   Sep 18 2005, 10:31 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   I've just found an article by Lorenz in the Ja...   Sep 18 2005, 10:43 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Now, I HAVE found a clear reference to the fact th...   Sep 18 2005, 10:50 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   Thanks BruceMoomaw for the interesting discution a...   Sep 18 2005, 07:38 PM
- - scalbers   Haven't had a chance to do this yet with these...   Sep 18 2005, 04:33 PM
- - David   I don't really know that much about the scienc...   Sep 18 2005, 05:43 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (David @ Sep 18 2005, 05:43 PM)I don...   Sep 18 2005, 07:08 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Sep 18 2005, 08:08 P...   Sep 18 2005, 07:39 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Sep 18 2005, 07:39 PM)Richa...   Sep 18 2005, 08:04 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   David: Nobody is saying that the methane rain that...   Sep 18 2005, 10:22 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Sep 18 2005, 10:22 PM)Bu...   Sep 20 2005, 07:32 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yes, but in those situations water seeps into the ...   Sep 20 2005, 11:31 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Sep 20 2005, 11:31 AM)Ye...   Sep 20 2005, 01:10 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Actually, I believe you're right -- on thinkin...   Sep 20 2005, 03:05 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Sep 20 2005, 08:05 AM)Bu...   Sep 20 2005, 04:37 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (JRehling @ Sep 20 2005, 05:37 PM)Assum...   Sep 20 2005, 04:48 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Note also that one of the most recent Cassini rada...   Sep 20 2005, 03:12 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Robert Mitchell has recently told me flatly that i...   Sep 20 2005, 05:19 PM
- - exoplanet   Has anyone put forward a theory that some sort of ...   Sep 20 2005, 06:43 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (exoplanet @ Sep 20 2005, 11:43 AM)... ...   Nov 1 2005, 04:59 PM
|- - imran   Just an article I found interesting. Rivers on Ti...   Dec 6 2005, 06:29 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (imran @ Dec 6 2005, 06:29 AM)Just an a...   Dec 6 2005, 07:22 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Dec 5 2005, 11:22 PM...   Dec 7 2005, 10:03 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (JRehling @ Dec 7 2005, 10:03 AM)I thin...   Dec 8 2005, 08:38 AM
|- - ljk4-1   The lighting levels are about right, supposedly Hu...   Feb 17 2006, 03:21 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Dec 8 2005, 12:3...   Feb 17 2006, 05:31 PM
|- - stevesliva   From what elevation is that? Is the convex appear...   Feb 20 2006, 08:31 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Not necessarily. First, the only spring channels ...   Sep 20 2005, 11:52 PM
- - exoplanet   Dear Bruce, I honestly respect you opinion but I ...   Sep 21 2005, 02:58 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   "Titan rain should not have much force as it ...   Sep 21 2005, 03:52 AM
- - exoplanet   "Bar-Nun's lab simulations had indicated ...   Sep 21 2005, 04:36 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   In chronological order: (2001) http://copernicus...   Sep 21 2005, 11:41 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   It isn't that the dark stuff falls out of the ...   Dec 7 2005, 07:47 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Dec 7 2005, 07:47 AM)It ...   Dec 7 2005, 08:45 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Dec 7 2005, 08:45 AM...   Dec 7 2005, 02:02 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   From Ralph Lorenz's very short abstract ...   Mar 27 2006, 06:24 AM


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