[X] My Assistant

[tfisher]

The New York Times has an update on the debate at the IAU on the
definition of a planet. It sounds like the working group may be leaning towards a simple size definition for people who insist on using "planet" unadorned by an adjective, in which case Xena will probably be declared a planet. (Of course, nothing is final...)

Anyway, I'd like to see some thoughts on what name the object should get. The starting place is the IAU rules: according to Mike Brown, they would want a Roman/Greek deity. Unfortunately, a lot of the good ones have been taken for minor planets and moons. A list of the names that have been taken already by minor planets is here.

I did a little searching; here are a few ideas:
Tartarus This is the lowest region of the world, below even Hades, and also the name of a god identified with the region. Very appropriate for the location, and not a bad sounding name. (This is my best bet.)

Thanatos God of death. Appropriate in relation to Pluto, but too gloomy for a planet -- very much not what a happy father thinking of his daughter would pick!

Persephone Already taken, but... As Brown points out in his page on the planet, this is a very apt name. And it polls well with the public. Well enough to force the asteroid of that name to take a back seat?

Terminus A god of borders between fields, or metaphorically, of frontiers. Appropriate, either for the connotation as the last planet out there, or as one indicating a boundary beyond which more may lie.

Quirinus Catchy sounding name for a god of the state of Rome, a role shared by Jupiter and Mars. Not taken.

[Jyril]

Persephone Already taken, but...  As Brown points out in his page on the planet, this is a very apt name.  And it polls well with the public.  Well enough to force the asteroid of that name to take a back seat?

I'd rather see it named Proserpina, which is the Roman counterpart of Persefone. It would be more fitting if we want to stick to traditional names.

There's another reason: Finnish schoolkids would have their equivalent of Ur-anus.

[David]

I'd rather see it named Proserpina, which is the Roman counterpart of Persefone. It would be more fitting if we want to stick to traditional names.

There's another reason: Finnish schoolkids would have their equivalent of Ur-anus.

Persephone/Proserpina would be fine, if 2003 UB313 didn't have a moon. There isn't really any secondary character associated with Persephone (other than her mother, Ceres/Demeter, and her husband, Pluto/Hades, both of which are taken) that would be suitable as a name for the moon. I was going to suggest Coeus or Crius, names of lesser-known Titans, but neither of them pairs very well with any other name. Since we know there is a moon beforehand, I think that should be taken into consideration, and both should be named at the same time. Vulcan/Hephaestus and Minerva/Athene have similar problems -- although some minor character might be plucked from the depths of myth because of a casual association. However, I think both of those names ought to be reserved for the possibility of finding even larger bodies than 2003 UB313 -- which, I think, ought to get the name of some god of the middle rank, perhaps a deified human.

I might suggest Dionysus and Ariadne, or Bacchus and Silenus, but except for Silenus, these are names already found among the asteroids, as are Apollo and Daphne.

I am therefore, however unwillingly, forced back on two over-obvious names: Hercules and Iolaus.

[ljk4-1]

Persephone/Proserpina would be fine, if 2003 UB313 didn't have a moon.  There isn't really any secondary character associated with Persephone (other than her mother, Ceres/Demeter, and her husband, Pluto/Hades, both of which are taken) that would be suitable as a name for the moon.  I was going to suggest Coeus or Crius, names of lesser-known Titans, but neither of them pairs very well with any other name.  Since we know there is a moon beforehand, I think that should be taken into consideration, and both should be named at the same time.  Vulcan/Hephaestus and Minerva/Athene have similar problems -- although some minor character might be plucked from the depths of myth because of a casual association.  However, I think both of those names ought to be reserved for the possibility of finding even larger bodies than 2003 UB313 -- which, I think, ought to get the name of some god of the middle rank, perhaps a deified human.

    I might suggest Dionysus and Ariadne, or Bacchus and Silenus, but except for Silenus, these are names already found among the asteroids, as are Apollo and Daphne.
 
    I am therefore, however unwillingly,    forced back on two over-obvious names: Hercules and Iolaus.

Why must they be names from Greek mythology?

Let's expand our cultural and historical horizons here a bit:

http://www.pantheon.org/

Just wait until we have to start naming all those exoplanets and their moons.
We'll run out of Greeks in no time.

[tfisher]

Since we know there is a moon beforehand, I think that should be taken into consideration, and both should be named at the same time. 

Good point. To pair with Tartarus, the moon might be named for the monster Kampe, gatekeeper to the pit of Tartarus, or the storm-giant Typhoeus who was imprisoned in that abyss.

The Titans Coeus and Crius as you suggest are good candidates. With Crius could be his wife Eurybia -- a very good combination. Coeus is paired with Phoebe, already taken as a moon...

[Rob Pinnegar]

I have a really bad feeling that, by the time the IAU makes its mind up about the names of these objects, the media will have lost interest to the extent that "Xena" and "Gabrielle" will be the names by which they are known to the general public.

This would be especially true if IAU decides not to grant planetary status. If they do, this might be deemed newsworthy, depending on what else of interest happens on that particular day.

[Edit: I do like "Typhon".]

[ljk4-1]

If contemporary astronomers had true political savy, they would follow Herschel's example with Uranus and Galileo's with the major Jovian moons and name the new "planet" and its moon Bush and Cheney.

Then watch the money for science and NASA come rolling in. We'll have astronauts putting up a colony there in no time. Built by Halliburton, of course.

Note I did not add a smiley here. Remember, we can change the names back in a century or so.

[tty]

How about Boreas, the North Wind and also a god of the far North?

If a classical term, not necessarily a god, is permissible I think Thule, a legendary island of the far North is a nice name. It is sometimes called ultima omnium Thule "Thule farthest of all" in the old sources.

What about a name from Norse mythology? Nifelheim, the land of ice, cold and death seems a good choice.

tty

[mike]

Eventually we'll be discovering so many planets/moons/stars/etc that every name from every ancient mythology ever will be taken and we'll have to go to new mythologies (Xena et al), or just use whatever strikes the fancy of whoever spots the particular planet/moon/star/whatever first.

I suppose you might as well use up all the old ones first, but don't be shocked when there's a Planet Seinfeld, and a Planet Thundercats, and whatever else..

[David]

With Crius could be his wife Eurybia -- a very good combination.

I like that (I had forgotten that Crius had a wife). I especially like it since -- astonishingly enough -- Eurybia is one of the few female characters from Greek myth whose name is not found among the asteroids!

[Guest_Myran_*]

David wrote: I might suggest Dionysus and Ariadne, or Bacchus and Silenus

I drink to that!

Seriously, most of your suggestions are good ones. Im somewhat inclined towards Tartarus or Persephone, the later would be a nod towards Arthur C. Clarke btw.
But save Nifelheim, Thule and for that matter Terminus for objects yet to be found even further out.

[dvandorn]

Not to mention the fact that Nifelheim and Terminus are both names of planets in classic and quite well-known science fiction novels. Besides, I really think Terminus ought to be a planet at the end of something -- it's the termination. If there was a way to identify a planet as occupying the very outer edge of the Solar System, I would vote for Terminus as an appropriate name. Otherwise, I'd save it.

-the other Doug

[tfisher]

I just ran across another good candidate: Erebus. Despite the forum members' familiarity with this name, the fact that it is used for a relatively small and unimportant crater on Mars shouldn't prevent it from naming a planet. Erebus was a Greek god of darkness, and in some mythologies was identified with the upper part of Hades (above Tartarus...). Appropriate, though I can't come up with a good moon name to go along...

Edit: Actually Geras, the daemon of old age and a son of Erebus would be good...