IPB
X   Site Message
(Message will auto close in 2 seconds)

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Phoenix Pre-launch News
RNeuhaus
post Oct 28 2005, 05:22 PM
Post #1


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1636
Joined: 9-May 05
From: Lima, Peru
Member No.: 385



This topic is for posts concerning to any preparation of Phoenix Lander Mission to Mars programmed to launch on August 2007 (less than 2 years... but the time will fly)

http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/future/phoenix.html

Overview

The Phoenix mission is the first chosen for NASA's Scout program, an initiative for smaller, lower-cost, competed spacecraft. Named for the resilient mythological bird, Phoenix uses a lander that was intended for use by 2001's Mars Surveyor lander prior to its cancellation. It also carries a complex suite of instruments that are improved variations of those that flew on the lost Mars Polar Lander.

Canada Will Land Instrument On Mars To Study Weather

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-future-05t.html

Rodolfo
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Apr 20 2006, 06:22 AM
Post #2





Guests






Several interesting new tidbits I've recently run across about this mission (in addition to the two I mentioned earlier):

(1) All its possible landing areas seem to have a very thin layer of dry soil over the underlying permafrost -- only 4-6 cm thick in most places. This presents problems for one desired science goal: using the MECA and TEGA to analyze chemical gradients with depth in the soil layer -- they may have to settle for only one or at most two scoops of soil before they get to the ice, instead of the hoped-for three.

For this reason, the planners are now placing greater emphasis on analyzing the permafrost itself on this mission -- but that, in turn, presents problems. Permafrost is very hard stuff, and Deborah Bass' blog ( http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/features/we...eborah_bass.php , Nov. 13 and 21 entries) reports the problems they've been having designing the scoop to properly handle it. The robotic arm by itself, even with the digging tines fastened to its scoop, isn't nearly strong enough to rake up an adequate pile of the stuff without taking days -- during which any shreds of ice it manages to detach will probably sublimate away before enough can be accumulated for the scoop to pick them up. Thus the decision to add the Icy Soil Acquisition Device -- a rotating "ice shredder wheel"-- to the rear of the scoop to both quickly detach shreds and kick them straight into the scoop.

(2) The best description of the reasons for the choice of "Region B" as the overall landing region is at http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2006/pdf/1328.pdf -- which can be summarized by saying that it's scientifically as good as the other two regions, and somewhat safer.

(3) Bass' Aug. 27 entry talks about the measures being taken to keep chemical contamination of the site by the thrusters' hydrazine within acceptable bounds. (Note that the Vikings reported no problems from this.)

(4) The Dec. 8 entry talks about the fact that the lander will be swaying rapidly during its parachute descent, which may somewhat blur the descent images (as it might have on Polar Lander).

(5) Each MECA wet chemistry cell will finish its analysis by dropping two chemical pellets into the water: an acid one to reveal any carbonates, and another to reveal both sulfates and soil oxidants.

(6) Besides the meteorology measurements made by the lidar and temperature and pressure sensors on the MET experiment, and the periodic air analyses done by the mass spectrometer, the "TECP" probe on the arm scoop to measure soil electrical and thermal conductivity (which has a heated prong surrounded by temperature sensors) can double as a hot-wire anemometer, and an air humidity sensor is also built into the TECP. There are also strings dangling from the thin mast carrying the MET temperature sensors to serve as photographable wind sensors, like the windsocks on Pathfinder's mast.

QUOTE (Spacely @ Apr 19 2006, 11:40 PM) *
Didn't see this elsewhere on the boards. The AO for Mars Scout '11/'12 went out on Monday.

http://www.marstoday.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=20314

Anyone have any info on the types of proposals we can expect?


ARES and MARVEL will be resubmitted, with only minor changes; but I haven't yet been able to find out whether SCIM will be. Bruce Campbell is also resubmitting his Mars Scout SAR orbiter, now christened "Eagle" ( http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2006/pdf/2188.pdf ). Ames Research Center is trying to one-up Langley and its ARES with "MATADOR", another Mars airplane that might actually be able to survive its final landing ( http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/chan...ATADOR11174.xml ) Bruce Banerdt is submitting some kind of single lander focusing on geophysics, and somebody else is submitting some kind of Phoenix-like lander with a mini-rover. Finally, besides ARES, the Langley center was planning to submit an atmospheric orbiter ("MARS": http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=18893 ) -- but the new plans for a big 2013 atmospheric orbiter may upset the chances for both that one and MARVEL.

Update: SCIM will be resubmitted in 2011 ( http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/06012...e_capsules.html ). I regard it as a major contender, especially given the new delay in the flat-out surface Mars sample return mission.

A Bit more on MATADOR at http://research.hq.nasa.gov/code_s/nra/cur...MT/winners.html :

"Lawrence Lemke / Ames Research Center
MATADOR: a Mars Advanced Technology Airplane for Deployment, Operations, and Recovery"

"Current Mars airplane missions typically begin by deploying the aiplane in a nose-down attitude, involve a dive below the cruise altitude in order to establish flight speed and end with an uncontrolled crash into the planet's surface. This proposal is to demonstrate technology which would improve this scenario by allowing controlled deployment of the folded wings at the beginning of flight without a negative altitude excursion and which would allow controlled impact of the aircraft into the planet's surface at the end of flight in a nose-high, low-energy approach which will leave the airframe in a condition to relay on-board data to an overhead spacecraft.

"The technology to accomplish this consists of a delta planform fuselage to contribute intrinsic pitch stability to the folded airplane at high angles of attack and a cold gas reaction control system under control of the autopilot to provide direct thrust vectors, independent of flight speed. This demonstration will be accomplished through a work plan to design, construct, and flight test an unpiloted aerial vehicle, named MATADOR.

"MATADOR is a blended wing-body rocket powered aircraft of 4m wingspan designed for steady-state flight on Mars at 4km above datum at 0.6 Mach and 0.6 Cl. The 3-year work plan calls for 2 high altitude flight test demonstrations of MATADOR to be conducted by carrying the airframe to approximately 30km altitude with a helium balloon and releasing it to begin flight. In addition, the plan calls for a series of ground impact tests in which the incidence angle and velocity and surface slope and roughness parameters will be experimentally investigated to determine their effect on the ability of the airplane to survive and function for the purposes of data communication."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lyford
post Apr 20 2006, 04:21 PM
Post #3


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1281
Joined: 18-December 04
From: San Diego, CA
Member No.: 124



QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 19 2006, 11:22 PM) *
(3) Bass' Aug. 27 entry talks about the measures being taken to keep chemical contamination of the site by the thrusters' hydrazine within acceptable bounds. (Note that the Vikings reported no problems from this.)

Pardon my newbie question, but are there any issues with "temperature contamination" from the lander? If we are trying to study pristine permafrost conditions, what affect would hot thrusters and the attendant gasses have? Would there be any delicate CO2 frost or ice melt that might change the local conditions? Or will the low temperature and pressure of Mars' atmosphere sufficiently dissipate any excess heat quickly enough?


--------------------
Lyford Rome
"Zis is not nuts, zis is super-nuts!" Mathematician Richard Courant on viewing an Orion test
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- RNeuhaus   Phoenix Pre-launch News   Oct 28 2005, 05:22 PM
- - climber   An article on Space.com where we can also "se...   Apr 5 2006, 09:50 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Principal Investigator Peter Smith has just answer...   Apr 11 2006, 02:04 AM
- - Phil Stooke   Where is this from, Bruce? Phil   Apr 11 2006, 03:37 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Smith E-mailed me personally, in response to my qu...   Apr 11 2006, 05:16 AM
- - Spacely   Didn't see this elsewhere on the boards. The A...   Apr 19 2006, 11:40 PM
- - RNeuhaus   At the 37th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference...   Apr 20 2006, 02:01 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Several interesting new tidbits I've recently ...   Apr 20 2006, 06:22 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   A winged Mars lander which might survive after tou...   Apr 20 2006, 08:05 AM
|- - lyford   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 19 2006, 11:22 P...   Apr 20 2006, 04:21 PM
||- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (lyford @ Apr 20 2006, 04:21 PM) Pa...   Apr 20 2006, 08:19 PM
||- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 20 2006, 09:19 P...   Apr 20 2006, 08:29 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 20 2006, 01:22 A...   Apr 20 2006, 06:58 PM
- - climber   Here are 2 Phoenix model pictures I took at the Pl...   Apr 20 2006, 09:03 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   'Cool! Check out the *bling* on that, Vict...   Apr 20 2006, 11:32 AM
- - djellison   Cool pictures - I guess those are spare Cosmos 1 ...   Apr 20 2006, 10:09 AM
|- - climber   [quote name='djellison' date='Apr 20 2...   Apr 20 2006, 11:09 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Ho ho, yuk yuk, har de har har. While going throu...   Apr 21 2006, 12:41 AM
- - djellison   So on one hand we've got reports of a terrain ...   Apr 21 2006, 12:48 AM
- - lyford   Upside down creme brulee? um, i mean the hard per...   Apr 21 2006, 01:02 AM
- - centsworth_II   If the "blow zone" is four meters in dia...   Apr 21 2006, 02:09 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   What they're apprehensive about blowing away i...   Apr 21 2006, 02:26 AM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 21 2006, 02:26 A...   Apr 21 2006, 08:46 AM
|- - climber   Hydrazine contamination Is this still a problem w...   Apr 21 2006, 10:43 AM
|- - chris   QUOTE (climber @ Apr 21 2006, 11:43 AM) I...   Apr 21 2006, 12:43 PM
|- - climber   Since part of the reason for going is to find out ...   Apr 21 2006, 12:52 PM
- - Joffan   Given our struggles to get the power required for ...   May 2 2006, 09:48 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (Joffan @ May 2 2006, 09:48 PM) Giv...   May 2 2006, 10:14 PM
- - djellison   Phoenix is just arrays, they will be almost parall...   May 2 2006, 10:10 PM
- - Joffan   Thanks helvick, very attractive graphs. I'm s...   May 2 2006, 11:49 PM
- - climber   This is an article from Space.com : "Backhoe ...   May 3 2006, 08:16 PM
|- - mars loon   QUOTE (climber @ May 3 2006, 08:16 PM) Th...   May 21 2006, 03:00 AM
- - edstrick   Interesting item on SpaceRef: NASA is going to pr...   May 21 2006, 09:38 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   A bit more on the new ice-sampling tool in Deborah...   May 22 2006, 12:18 AM
- - Cugel   spacedaily If you can't make it as a MER rove...   Jun 20 2006, 02:33 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (Cugel @ Jun 20 2006, 09:33 AM) spa...   Jun 20 2006, 11:35 PM
- - djellison   reads much like the testbed they put together for ...   Jun 20 2006, 02:41 PM
- - RNeuhaus   Interesting interview with Chris Mckay about Phoni...   Aug 20 2006, 12:02 AM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Aug 19 2006, 08:02 PM) ...   Aug 20 2006, 05:24 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   Public Invited to UA's Phoenix Mars Mission Op...   Oct 12 2006, 01:04 AM
- - antipode   Hi all Not sure if this has been asked before, bu...   Oct 12 2006, 07:29 AM
- - Rakhir   I don't know the creation process of martian f...   Oct 12 2006, 08:38 AM
|- - helvick   Without snow\frost degrading the panels power...   Oct 12 2006, 10:49 AM
|- - tedstryk   Unlikely as it is, I think it would be really cool...   Oct 12 2006, 01:11 PM
- - Julius   Looking at the MRO image of the region close to wh...   Oct 12 2006, 11:18 AM
|- - climber   QUOTE (Julius @ Oct 12 2006, 01:18 PM) Lo...   Oct 12 2006, 04:45 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (climber @ Oct 12 2006, 11:45 AM) P...   Oct 12 2006, 07:11 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Julius: "Looking at the MRO image of the reg...   Oct 12 2006, 04:26 PM
- - Julius   Thats the MRO image I was talking about except you...   Oct 12 2006, 08:42 PM
|- - Anoolios   University of Arizona news article; Full-scale Mar...   Oct 17 2006, 04:44 PM
|- - tuvas   QUOTE (Anoolios @ Oct 17 2006, 09:44 AM) ...   Oct 22 2006, 05:35 AM
- - edstrick   phrasemorphing: "There is no hope that Lunar ...   Oct 22 2006, 10:59 AM
- - djellison   The Lunar Surveyors didn't get burried for ...   Oct 22 2006, 01:25 PM
|- - tuvas   There's even less chance that that for Phoenix...   Oct 22 2006, 03:27 PM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (tuvas @ Oct 22 2006, 10:27 AM) The...   Oct 23 2006, 02:15 PM
- - tty   I think you are overestimating how dynamic an ice-...   Oct 22 2006, 04:14 PM
- - nprev   I hope that it survives for a fair period as the d...   Oct 22 2006, 11:53 PM
|- - tuvas   QUOTE (nprev @ Oct 22 2006, 04:53 PM) I h...   Oct 23 2006, 04:58 AM
- - edstrick   I have no recollection of estimates what temperatu...   Oct 23 2006, 07:26 AM
- - djellison   I can't help but laugh when people start sugge...   Oct 23 2006, 02:33 PM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 23 2006, 03:33 PM)...   Oct 23 2006, 02:49 PM
||- - djellison   QUOTE (ustrax @ Oct 23 2006, 03:49 PM) Do...   Oct 23 2006, 03:31 PM
|- - mchan   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 23 2006, 07:33 AM)...   Oct 24 2006, 07:57 AM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 24 2006, 12:33 AM)...   Oct 26 2006, 06:22 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Stephen @ Oct 26 2006, 07:22 AM) t...   Oct 26 2006, 07:39 AM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 26 2006, 05:39 PM)...   Oct 26 2006, 08:05 AM
|- - punkboi   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 25 2006, 11:39 PM)...   Dec 7 2006, 05:12 PM
- - RNeuhaus   The problem was that I haven't expressed well ...   Oct 23 2006, 02:49 PM
- - tuvas   It is true that the polar regions don't shift ...   Oct 23 2006, 04:17 PM
- - hendric   My prediction is that due to the height above grou...   Oct 23 2006, 05:34 PM
- - nprev   I don't know if "silly" would be the...   Oct 23 2006, 08:56 PM
- - djellison   I would still argue that suggesting changes should...   Oct 23 2006, 09:48 PM
- - nprev   No argument, Doug, believe me...I have been there ...   Oct 23 2006, 10:25 PM
- - MarsEngineer   Hi Doug et al, Right again Doug, the Phoenix sola...   Oct 25 2006, 06:31 AM
|- - climber   QUOTE (MarsEngineer @ Oct 25 2006, 08:31 ...   Oct 25 2006, 06:21 PM
|- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (MarsEngineer @ Oct 24 2006, 10:31 ...   Oct 26 2006, 02:25 AM
|- - MarsEngineer   QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Oct 25 2006, 07:25 P...   Oct 26 2006, 03:19 AM
- - djellison   It'll be nice to try and pin down how much of ...   Oct 25 2006, 07:55 AM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 25 2006, 08:55 AM)...   Oct 25 2006, 09:50 AM
- - djellison   They saw the heatshield up close....but not the ch...   Oct 25 2006, 07:11 PM
|- - climber   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 25 2006, 09:11 PM)...   Oct 25 2006, 07:40 PM
- - djellison   Ahh - I don't think I would want to get close ...   Oct 25 2006, 07:44 PM
|- - climber   QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 25 2006, 09:44 PM)...   Oct 25 2006, 07:49 PM
- - Jim from NSF.com   As said before, Skycrane is not name of the ...   Oct 25 2006, 11:10 PM
- - MarsEngineer   Doug and friends, I remember asking the Pioneer g...   Oct 26 2006, 01:47 AM
- - MarsEngineer   By the way, I never thought to consider a self por...   Oct 26 2006, 02:10 AM
- - dvandorn   I think the point was that the backshells and ...   Oct 26 2006, 02:38 AM
- - climber   A few months ago, we also had thoughts about cruis...   Oct 26 2006, 05:49 AM
- - djellison   Yes - there are things that are best done from the...   Oct 26 2006, 08:56 AM
|- - ustrax   Space.com article   Dec 6 2006, 05:37 PM
|- - climber   QUOTE (ustrax @ Dec 6 2006, 06:37 PM) Spa...   Dec 6 2006, 09:38 PM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (climber @ Dec 6 2006, 09:38 PM) Th...   Dec 7 2006, 11:02 AM
|- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (climber @ Dec 6 2006, 01:38 PM) Th...   Dec 7 2006, 04:06 PM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Dec 7 2006, 04:06 PM...   Dec 7 2006, 10:43 PM
||- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (ustrax @ Dec 7 2006, 02:43 PM) Sor...   Dec 7 2006, 10:52 PM
||- - ustrax   QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Dec 7 2006, 10:52 PM...   Dec 8 2006, 06:36 PM
|- - Jim from NSF.com   QUOTE (ElkGroveDan @ Dec 7 2006, 11:06 AM...   Dec 20 2006, 08:07 PM
|- - lyford   QUOTE (Jim from NSF.com @ Dec 20 2006, 12...   Dec 20 2006, 10:23 PM
- - Stu   Gorgeous artwork of the lander on the ground at tw...   Dec 20 2006, 05:30 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   Has anyone noticed the newly re-designed Phoenix w...   Dec 27 2006, 08:40 PM
3 Pages V   1 2 3 >


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 13th December 2024 - 05:50 PM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.