IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Uranus Orbiter, The other proposed ice-giant mission
Rob Pinnegar
post Nov 11 2005, 05:13 PM
Post #1


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 501
Joined: 2-July 05
From: Calgary, Alberta
Member No.: 426



Since the Neptune Orbiter thread has started to veer into talking about a Uranus orbiter as well, it seemed like a good idea to start a topic for Uranus.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
brellis
post Sep 25 2007, 01:30 AM
Post #2


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 704
Joined: 9-February 07
Member No.: 1700



QUOTE
requirements for planetary missions tend to increase & specialize over time as we build on the results of previous missions, complicated by the fact that technology changes rapidly. This applies even to the bus, not just the payload. Therefore, mass-producing modular "COTS" spacecraft for planetary missions just isn't feasible. (I know; I think it sucks, too!)


It isn't "mass-producing". It's reproducing maybe a couple of dozen spacecraft that have common traits and interchangeable parts.

My area of work involves an analogy of sorts. I do soundtrack music for films. The technology involved requires a considerable investment of time to learn software, etc. At the dawn of the age of technology for us musicians, there was a feeling of exclusivity to our world.

When embarking on my music career, I tried to get the biggest, fastest, most versatile and bug-proof hardware/software available. The biggest part of this investment was a Synclavier. Almost 25 years later, I still use my Synclav primarily. The other software I use, ProTools, is almost 20 years old now, with lots of upgrades. It's not worth the effort to learn something that will be obsolete next year. It's worth it if there's a longterm possibility of success.

Spacecraft design must involve these longterm visions. Make the software easy to upgrade, and make the hardware as potent as possible, so it can be relevant 20 years hence. Build it and they will come. Send a fleet of well-built spacecraft to the outer planets, and the software designers will surely keep them relevant.

What made Galileo great was: first, they managed to launch it, and then, by hook or crook they milked everything they could out of the mission. Equipment failure didn't stop them. The philosophy of longterm investment of money, hardware, software and human effort was worth it.

Missions to the outer planets are worth the wait, and the machinery should be designed accordingly.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nprev
post Sep 25 2007, 03:40 AM
Post #3


Senior Member
****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 7023
Joined: 8-December 05
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 602



QUOTE (brellis @ Sep 24 2007, 06:30 PM) *
It isn't "mass-producing". It's reproducing maybe a couple of dozen spacecraft that have common traits and interchangeable parts....
Missions to the outer planets are worth the wait, and the machinery should be designed accordingly.


Cannot disagree philosophically, but the problem is much more externally than internally driven.

We all know Moore's Law here, and that complicates long-term logistical support of software tremendously (older stuff gets REALLY expensive, really fast, to maintain; how to attract & retain coders for activities 30 years in the future?) Furthermore, achieving space qualification for IT hardware is not an insignificant effort. As of 2000, 80386 processors had finally achieved this for C-17 aircraft, which is a much lower level than that required for spacecraft. Add the fact that space exploration budgets do not generally enjoy stable long-term committments from decision makers for a variety of reasons...and thus very long-duration missions are correspondingly very difficult to sell.

A propulsion breakthough would obviate all this. Short of that, the overall risk profile for Cassini-equivalent outer-planet missions is questionable at best.


--------------------
A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- Rob Pinnegar   Uranus Orbiter   Nov 11 2005, 05:13 PM
- - tasp   QUOTE (Rob Pinnegar @ Nov 11 2005, 11:13 AM)S...   Nov 11 2005, 05:46 PM
- - tasp   I admit a keen interest in Uranus. The mass ratio...   Nov 11 2005, 06:08 PM
|- - Rob Pinnegar   QUOTE (tasp @ Nov 11 2005, 12:08 PM)Would Hub...   Nov 11 2005, 07:15 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (Rob Pinnegar @ Nov 11 2005, 07:15 PM)T...   Nov 11 2005, 07:59 PM
|- - tasp   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Nov 11 2005, 01:59 PM)...   Nov 12 2005, 02:21 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (tasp @ Nov 12 2005, 02:21 PM)I'll ...   Nov 15 2005, 06:15 PM
|- - tasp   {In re the 20 year mission life at Uranus} I real...   Nov 15 2005, 07:29 PM
- - Rob Pinnegar   Yeah, thanks Alex -- that link was a good read. Ve...   Nov 13 2005, 01:49 AM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (Rob Pinnegar @ Nov 13 2005, 01:49 AM)Y...   Nov 15 2005, 06:01 PM
|- - hendric   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Nov 15 2005, 12:01 PM)...   Nov 16 2005, 08:54 AM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (hendric @ Nov 16 2005, 08:54 AM)For ...   Nov 16 2005, 05:56 PM
|- - tasp   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Nov 16 2005, 11:56 AM)...   Nov 16 2005, 06:19 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (tasp @ Nov 16 2005, 06:19 PM)I confess...   Nov 23 2005, 01:49 AM
- - tasp   Without incurring copyright snags, of course, coul...   Nov 15 2005, 06:16 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (tasp @ Nov 15 2005, 06:16 PM)Without i...   Nov 15 2005, 06:34 PM
|- - tasp   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Nov 15 2005, 12:34 PM)...   Nov 26 2005, 02:27 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Orbiting Ariel would be a remarkable ending to thi...   Nov 15 2005, 07:31 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   A long time ago (the early 1970s!), I suggeste...   Nov 15 2005, 10:13 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Well, shucks, how can anybody not jump at a bargai...   Nov 16 2005, 09:23 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   The best way to orbit -- or land on -- either Plut...   Nov 26 2005, 09:23 PM
|- - tasp   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Nov 26 2005, 03:23 PM)Th...   Nov 27 2005, 01:15 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   McRonald's best paper on the subject seems to ...   Nov 27 2005, 03:17 AM
|- - tasp   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Nov 26 2005, 09:17 PM)Mc...   Nov 27 2005, 03:58 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Just keep in mind that -- because Pluto's grav...   Nov 27 2005, 10:00 AM
|- - tasp   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Nov 27 2005, 04:00 AM)Ju...   Nov 28 2005, 04:45 AM
- - dvandorn   The biggest problem with using steerable aerocaptu...   Nov 29 2005, 02:32 PM
|- - tasp   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Nov 29 2005, 08:32 AM)Like ...   Nov 29 2005, 03:38 PM
- - centsworth_II   What about a small,simple atmospheric probe that w...   Nov 29 2005, 05:49 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   You don't need to grasp at straws -- Tasp...   Nov 29 2005, 09:23 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   The document for simulation tests for a Neptune or...   Nov 30 2005, 08:29 AM
|- - tasp   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Nov 30 2005, 02:29 AM)Th...   Nov 30 2005, 04:36 PM
|- - vexgizmo   An excuse to post in the oh-so-obscure Uranus Orbi...   Feb 2 2006, 07:46 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (tasp @ Nov 30 2005, 08:36 AM)Weird it ...   Feb 2 2006, 05:30 PM
- - PhilHorzempa   Time to re-start this thread. Thanks to Cassini, ...   Apr 9 2007, 05:07 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (PhilHorzempa @ Apr 9 2007, 10:07 A...   Apr 10 2007, 03:02 PM
- - Cugel   Let's not forget that at Neptune Triton would ...   Apr 9 2007, 06:33 PM
|- - PhilHorzempa   QUOTE (Cugel @ Apr 9 2007, 02:33 PM) Let...   Apr 9 2007, 08:52 PM
- - Cugel   I stand corrected. I just wasn't following thi...   Apr 10 2007, 12:12 AM
- - Greg Hullender   Apparently the big reason to prefer Neptune to Ura...   Apr 10 2007, 12:53 AM
- - dvandorn   The other attraction of Triton is, of course, that...   Apr 10 2007, 03:22 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Apr 10 2007, 08:22 AM) ...   Apr 10 2007, 05:37 PM
|- - hendric   QUOTE (JRehling @ Apr 10 2007, 12:37 PM) ...   Apr 10 2007, 09:10 PM
- - Rob Pinnegar   A couple of random thoughts in favour of Neptune o...   Apr 11 2007, 03:28 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (Rob Pinnegar @ Apr 11 2007, 03:28 ...   Apr 25 2007, 01:28 AM
- - jsheff   Don't forget that both of them have ring syste...   Apr 21 2007, 08:42 PM
- - Jyril   And don't forget Neptune's second largest ...   Apr 22 2007, 05:08 PM
- - Spirit   What about building two identical probes and launc...   Sep 22 2007, 11:45 AM
|- - infocat13   QUOTE (Spirit @ Sep 22 2007, 07:45 AM) Wh...   Sep 24 2007, 10:45 PM
|- - AscendingNode   QUOTE (infocat13 @ Sep 24 2007, 03:45 PM)...   Sep 25 2007, 12:12 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (infocat13 @ Sep 24 2007, 03:45 PM)...   Sep 25 2007, 05:03 AM
- - djellison   Sounds great! You paying? Seriously - that...   Sep 22 2007, 12:12 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (djellison @ Sep 22 2007, 05:12 AM)...   Sep 22 2007, 06:14 PM
|- - AscendingNode   QUOTE (JRehling @ Sep 22 2007, 11:14 AM) ...   Sep 23 2007, 05:18 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (AscendingNode @ Sep 22 2007, 10:18...   Sep 23 2007, 05:56 AM
|- - ugordan   Regarding attitude-control propellant (i.e. monopr...   Sep 23 2007, 10:41 AM
|- - AscendingNode   QUOTE (JRehling @ Sep 22 2007, 10:56 PM) ...   Sep 23 2007, 02:25 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (AscendingNode @ Sep 23 2007, 04:25...   Sep 23 2007, 03:00 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (AscendingNode @ Sep 23 2007, 07:25...   Sep 23 2007, 09:07 PM
- - brellis   A mothership with a bunch of micro-landers would b...   Sep 22 2007, 04:37 PM
- - djellison   Whilst orbital mechanics dictate that sending Cass...   Sep 23 2007, 05:21 PM
- - tasp   I admit a burning desire for a Uranian orbiter (he...   Sep 23 2007, 05:48 PM
- - djellison   I think Neptune and Uranus orbiters are going to r...   Sep 23 2007, 06:11 PM
- - mchan   Will RTG power levels be sufficient to operate all...   Sep 23 2007, 09:09 PM
|- - tedstryk   Well, 42 years, really. That's how long till ...   Sep 24 2007, 10:11 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Sep 24 2007, 12:11 PM) ...   Sep 24 2007, 11:05 AM
- - tasp   The Galileo style tour of the Uranian system is qu...   Sep 24 2007, 12:51 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (tasp @ Sep 24 2007, 01:51 PM) A Ur...   Sep 24 2007, 01:52 PM
||- - AscendingNode   QUOTE (djellison @ Sep 24 2007, 06:52 AM)...   Sep 24 2007, 05:34 PM
||- - djellison   QUOTE (AscendingNode @ Sep 24 2007, 06:34...   Sep 24 2007, 05:49 PM
|- - JRehling   I think one difficulty owing to the no-big-moon si...   Sep 24 2007, 03:41 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (JRehling @ Sep 24 2007, 10:41 AM) ...   Sep 24 2007, 04:32 PM
|- - AscendingNode   QUOTE (JRehling @ Sep 24 2007, 08:41 AM) ...   Sep 24 2007, 05:37 PM
|- - JRehling   Another consideration, a happy one, is that for th...   Sep 25 2007, 02:46 PM
- - djellison   The paper cited above actually discusses the plane...   Sep 24 2007, 03:46 PM
- - nprev   Infocat, I and others on the board have had variat...   Sep 25 2007, 01:00 AM
- - brellis   QUOTE requirements for planetary missions tend to ...   Sep 25 2007, 01:30 AM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (brellis @ Sep 24 2007, 06:30 PM) I...   Sep 25 2007, 03:40 AM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (nprev @ Sep 24 2007, 10:40 PM) ......   Sep 25 2007, 05:42 AM
|- - brellis   QUOTE (nprev @ Sep 24 2007, 08:40 PM) Can...   Sep 25 2007, 08:42 AM
- - tasp   Yeah, the Longuski paper describes a mission phase...   Sep 25 2007, 02:19 AM
- - dvandorn   Anyone have any charts handy telling us when we ha...   Sep 25 2007, 05:51 AM
- - mchan   To a first order, there can be Jupiter gravity ass...   Sep 25 2007, 07:30 AM
- - Spirit   Maybe we'll have another opportunity to flyby ...   Sep 25 2007, 04:23 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Spirit @ Sep 25 2007, 09:23 AM) Ma...   Sep 25 2007, 06:06 PM
- - algorimancer   Perhaps slightly off-topic, but there have been se...   Sep 25 2007, 07:45 PM
- - tedstryk   QUOTE (algorimancer @ Sep 25 2007, 07:45 ...   Sep 25 2007, 09:08 PM
- - algorimancer   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Sep 25 2007, 04:08 PM) ...   Sep 26 2007, 12:37 PM


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th September 2014 - 11:56 PM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is a project of the Planetary Society and is funded by donations from visitors and members. Help keep this forum up and running by contributing here.