[X] My Assistant

[dvandorn]

Don:

If the Dogoids come to Earth to have sex with our furniture, that's certainly bad news; still, it could be worse - they could be interested in our legs! Eeek!

Bob Shaw

So, Bob, you're saying you wouldn't welcome a visit from the Starship Humpyerleg, which has traveled all the way to Earth from the Dog Star?

-the other Dog

[ljk4-1]

Study Shows Our Ancestors Survived Snowball Earth

Seattle WA (SPX) Jun 07, 2006

It has been 2.3 billion years since Earth's atmosphere became infused with enough oxygen to support life as we know it. About the same time, the planet became encased in ice that some scientists speculate was more than a half-mile deep.

http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Study_Sh...ball_Earth.html

[Guest_Richard Trigaux_*]

Study Shows Our Ancestors Survived Snowball Earth

Those (terrible) glaciations lasted only some ten thousands years, not for billion years (the time volcanoes raise the carbon to create a new greehouse effect).

And, even if all the oceans were covered with half a mile ice, from equator to pole, the covering could not be continuous. There was hot spots, around volcanoes, on the coasts, or in special places, with light coming onto water, and several small ecological niches. Perhaps there was upwelling currents, with places free of ices, as today.

This said, it was certainly an heavy strain on life forms present at this epoch. Would such a thing happen today, 99% would disappear.

But the worse moment was perhaps not the cold, it was when increased greenhouse effect melted everything, in a very short time. With the extra carbon, the temperature raised to perhaps 50°C on the surface.

[ljk4-1]

Astrophysics, abstract
astro-ph/0606102

From: Milan M. Cirkovic [view email]

Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 01:01:04 GMT (858kb)

Macroengineering in the Galactic Context: A New Agenda for Astrobiology

Authors: Milan M. Cirkovic

Comments: Contribution to "Macro-Engineering: A Challenge for the Future" ed. by Viorel Badescu, Richard B. Cathcart, and Roelof D. Schuiling, in press

We consider the problem of detectability of macro-engineering projects over interstellar distances, in the context of Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence (SETI). Freeman J. Dyson and his imaginative precursors, like Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, Olaf Stapledon or John B. S. Haldane, suggested macro-engineering projects as focal points in the context of extrapolations about the future of humanity and, by analogy, other intelligent species in the Milky Way. We emphasize that the search for signposts of extraterrestrial macro-engineering projects is not an optional pursuit within the family of ongoing and planned SETI projects; inter alia, the failure of the orthodox SETI thus far clearly indicates this. Instead, this approach (for which we suggest a name of "Dysonian") should be the front-line and mainstay of any cogent SETI strategy in future, being significantly more promising than searches for directed, intentional radio or microwave emissions. This is in accord with our improved astrophysical understanding of the structure and evolution of the Galactic Habitable Zone, as well as with the recent wake-up call of Steven J. Dick to investigate consequences of postbiological evolution for astrobiology in general and SETI programs in particular. The benefits this multidisciplinary approach may bear for macro-engineers are also briefly highlighted.

http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0606102

[Guest_Richard Trigaux_*]

1) SETI did not failed. It simply did not detected large or intentional signals (sent to us) into a very limited bandwidth (around the water line). But it would be still unable to detect Earth-like planets (unintentionnal activity) at more than... 1 light-year. This makes that there is still plenty of place to search (increased sensitivity, larger bandwidth) and tens of years of enhancement ahead before being able to positively state that there is no radio technology out there.

2) The previous result arises suspicion on finding large technologies, precisely. So the authours should not conclude that we must search mainly such technologies, right on the countrary.


The SETI results today teach us one thing (if only one) that ET civs (if there are) are not what we expect in science fiction books. Eventualy Earth-like civilization would very probably be a very brief episode into the evolution of a planet. Earthlings only 2500 years ago would have be completely unable to predict our technology achievements, and even less our spiritual achievements (democracy, abolition of slavery, abolition of physical punishments, equalitarian laws, school for all, international peace keeping...) So how could we be able to extrapolate our achievements in 10 million years? Certainly this evolution is not linear, we shall not simply increase our technology level while keeping to a cold war political level, there will certainly be sharp turns or very unexpected steps.

[deglr6328]

... 1 light-year. This makes that there is still plenty of place to search (increased sensitivity, larger nadwidth)

one does wonder occasionally about the nadwidth of extraterrestrial life.

[Guest_Richard Trigaux_*]

one does wonder occasionally about the nadwidth of extraterrestrial life.

Larger BANDwidth (corrected in original post)

nadwidth is the next evolutionary step to come, which allow ET civs to see us without being seen, and laugh at our spelling mistakes. It is amazing how we are able of such blunders and not notice them even when we re-read carefuly.

[ljk4-1]

2) The previous result arises suspicion on finding large technologies, precisely. So the authours should not conclude that we must search mainly such technologies, right on the countrary.

The SETI results today teach us one thing (if only one) that ET civs (if there are) are not what we expect in science fiction books. Eventualy Earth-like civilization would very probably be a very brief episode into the evolution of a planet. Earthlings only 2500 years ago would have be completely unable to predict our technology achievements, and even less our spiritual achievements (democracy, abolition of slavery, abolition of physical punishments, equalitarian laws, school for all, international peace keeping...) So how could we be able to extrapolate our achievements in 10 million years? Certainly this evolution is not linear, we shall not simply increase our technology level while keeping to a cold war political level, there will certainly be sharp turns or very unexpected steps.

In Robert J. Sawyer's SF novel from 2000, Calculating God, it was discovered
that many ETI had abandoned space exploration and other aspects of their
societies and retreated to virtual reality worlds deep under the surface of
their home planets where presumably they could do and be anything they
wanted without the messiness of real reality butting in.

http://www.sfwriter.com/excg.htm

Thank goodness we humans don't spend hours and hours sitting in front
of computers lost in our own created worlds.

[Guest_DonPMitchell_*]

1) SETI did not failed. It simply did not detected large or intentional signals (sent to us) into a very limited bandwidth (around the water line). But it would be still unable to detect Earth-like planets (unintentionnal activity) at more than... 1 light-year. This makes that there is still plenty of place to search (increased sensitivity, larger bandwidth) and tens of years of enhancement ahead before being able to positively state that there is no radio technology out there.

I've always been in favor of SETI. I think it cannot "fail" as an experiment, because the result is interesting whether it is positive or negative. Personally, I think intelligent life is rare, like 0 or 1 civilization per galaxy. But it is all a big guessing game.

Maybe we should starta thread about the Drake equation, if folks want to speculate about that.

[ustrax]

Maybe we should starta thread about the Drake equation, if folks want to speculate about that.

I'm all for it...
Would you take the honour?

[ljk4-1]

Reminder:

SETI Institute Open House

515 N. Whisman Road
Mountain View, CA 94043

June 10, 2006

10am – 4pm

Web site:

http://www.seti.org/celebratingscience2006/

For more information visit us online at www.seti.org (http://www.seti.org/) or call 650-961-6633 and ask for Cynthia Ramsayer.

Scheduled Talks

10:30 am "SETI: Science Fact, Not Fiction" - Jill Tarter
11:00 am "What Might E.T. Look Like?" - Seth Shostak
11:30 am "Europa: The Ocean Moon" - Cynthia Phillips
12:00 noon "ATA: Sharing the Sky" - Peter Backus
12:30 pm "A Home Away from Home: The Search for Planets around Other Stars" - Andrew Fraknoi
1:00 pm "Meteor Showers and Their Parent Bodies" - Peter Jenniskens
2:00 pm "Talking with E.T." -- Doug Vakoch
2:30 pm "What Might E.T. Look Like?" -- Seth Shostak

Meet and mingle with scientists

Frank Drake
Peter Backus
Devon Burr
Andrew Fraknoi
Friedemann Freund
Peter Jenniskens
Cynthia Phillips
Seth Shostak
Jill Tarter
Douglas Vakoch

Take a virtual tour of Hat Creek and the Allen Telescope Array.

[ljk4-1]

In the May.June, 2006 issue of The Planetary Report:

We Make It Happen! The Planetary Society Optical SETI Telescope

With the support of Planetary Society members around the world, The Planetary Society Optical SETI Telescope began searching the skies for signs of intelligent life in April. Planetary Society Director of Projects Bruce Betts explains the cutting-edge technology that will allow this unique SETI telescope to conduct a year-round, all-sky survey.

http://planetary.org/programs/planetary_report.html

[Stu]

Anyone heard what today's "Major SETI Announcement" is all about? Nothing on the wires...

[ustrax]

Anyone heard what today's "Major SETI Announcement" is all about? Nothing on the wires...

http://www.spaceref.com/calendar/calendar.html?pid=4200

[Stu]

Thanks, but that's what I knew already... it still doesn't say what the news actually is... I wasn't expecting an announcement of a detection, I just want to know what's ging on...

Edit: Ah... just unearthed this on a SETI forum:

The announcement is regarding the formation of the Carl Sagan Center for the Study of Life In the Universe. The SETI Institute was the first to study astrobiology, under the mantle of simply The Center for Study of Life In the Universe (we call it LITU). Whenever an astrobiologist, astrophysicist, planetary geologist, etc said they worked for the SETI Institute they had to explain that they do not study radio astronomy. So, the management decided to create the Carl Sagan Center, with it's own logo, business cards, etc, that will better portray their range of study. The new logo took the central 'sphere' from the SETI logo and inserted Carl Sagan Center, I think it's pretty cool.
There are reports that NASA will be slashing funding for astrobiology by 50%, to fund the Moon and Mars human missions. We need to continue robotic and telescopic research to find microbial life in our solar system and extrasolar systems. We hope the new Carl Sagan Center will create new funding avenues.
This news is very exciting for us here at the Institute, but will probably disappoint those who were looking for something more dramatic.