IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

45 Pages V  « < 26 27 28 29 30 > »   
Closed TopicStart new topic
Phobos-Grunt
Phil Stooke
post Nov 7 2011, 02:24 AM
Post #406


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 5327
Joined: 5-April 05
From: Canada
Member No.: 227



The question is, do you want to translate or transliterate? And no, there are no hard and fast rules. Many people actually prefer to call it Phobos Sample Return Mission.

Phil



--------------------
... because the Solar System ain't gonna map itself.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nprev
post Nov 7 2011, 02:44 AM
Post #407


Senior Member
****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 6830
Joined: 8-December 05
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 602



I really gotta agree with Dan here. I don't think it should be just about PPP, it should be about not introducing foreign materials onto the flight hardware, period.

I don't know what the electrical resistance of human hair is; I suspect that it's high but not a dead open. Still, doesn't seem like the sort of thing you'd want to drift into a circuit path.

My take on it is that it's always better to err on the side of caution.


--------------------
A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stevesliva
post Nov 7 2011, 03:36 AM
Post #408


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1156
Joined: 14-October 05
From: Seattle
Member No.: 530



QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 6 2011, 09:44 PM) *
Still, doesn't seem like the sort of thing you'd want to drift into a circuit path.


Or optics.

But I wonder if dust or hair drifting around in space can accumulate a large static charge to discharge? That would be bad.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
maschnitz
post Nov 7 2011, 04:19 AM
Post #409


Junior Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 60
Joined: 3-January 09
Member No.: 4520



I'd argue the transliteration is Fobos-Grunt and the translation is Phobos-Soil (or Phobos Soil Return Mission).

"Phobos-Grunt" is somewhat goofyfooted as a phrase - "Phobos" is a translation of the Russian name but "Grunt" is a transliteration of the Cyrillic word, not a translation. You can maybe argue the Cyrillic Ф character is better transliterated as "Ph", but it's more commonly transliterated as an F.

And, FWIW, Wikipedia calls it Fobos-Grunt.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
konangrit
post Nov 7 2011, 05:44 AM
Post #410


Junior Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 38
Joined: 14-March 06
Member No.: 704



Yes, the issue seems to be Roskosmos translating one word, and transliterating the other. Although I'm not a linguist and as you suggest maybe Фобос could be transliterated as either Phobos and Fobos. Presumably both Phobos and Fobos transliterate as Фобос, so maybe Roskosmos would say that Фобос-Грунт is a transliteration of Phobos-Grunt smile.gif.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
machi
post Nov 7 2011, 09:38 AM
Post #411


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 587
Joined: 27-February 08
From: Heart of Europe
Member No.: 4057



It's simple, english Ph sounds same as F in many slavic languages and that is reason why both possibilities (Phobos-Grunt, Fobos-Grunt) exists.
Similarly we write Kanada instead Canada, because english C sounds same as slavic K.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GEmin1
post Nov 7 2011, 10:07 AM
Post #412


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 18-July 11
Member No.: 6068



QUOTE (MERovingian @ Nov 5 2011, 11:08 PM) *
Anyhow, I wish the very best of luck to the Russians starting on Tuesday on their first mission to Mars since 1996!It took a lot of perseverance and patience for these guys, working with ridiculous budgets; I believe the cost of Fobos- Grunt is... 64 million dollars? huh.gif


Around $200 mln. (5 bln. RR)
http://ria.ru/online/456770097.html

QUOTE (MERovingian @ Nov 5 2011, 11:08 PM) *
I will be taking time off from work just to watch the Zenith taking off (by the way, does anybody know of a site where it will be shown live from Baikonur??)...


http://www.tv-tsenki.com/live.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tedstryk
post Nov 7 2011, 02:19 PM
Post #413


Interplanetary Dumpster Diver
****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 4159
Joined: 17-February 04
From: Powell, TN
Member No.: 33



Well, with Phobos-1 and Phobos-2, Fobos was rarely used, but Venera (Venus) is almost always transliterated. "Марс" transliterates and translates as "Mars", so there isn't an issue.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GEmin1
post Nov 7 2011, 02:40 PM
Post #414


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 18-July 11
Member No.: 6068



The Zenit-2SB rocket was transported to the launchpad on November 6.

Photos - http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=393
Video - http://www.tvroscosmos.ru/frm/video/start105.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stevesliva
post Nov 7 2011, 05:09 PM
Post #415


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1156
Joined: 14-October 05
From: Seattle
Member No.: 530



QUOTE (machi @ Nov 7 2011, 04:38 AM) *
Similarly we write Kanada instead Canada, because english C sounds same as slavic K.


Do you prefer Sliva or Sliwa? Must know.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
machi
post Nov 7 2011, 07:00 PM
Post #416


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 587
Joined: 27-February 08
From: Heart of Europe
Member No.: 4057



QUOTE (tedstryk @ Nov 7 2011, 03:19 PM) *
Well, with Phobos-1 and Phobos-2, Fobos was rarely used, but Venera (Venus) is almost always transliterated. "Марс" transliterates and translates as "Mars", so there isn't an issue.


Two problems are related to this. Transcription from cyrillic is first and then proper pronunciation is second. "Марс" sounds (every letter) in russian nearly the same as Mars in English, so direct transcription isn't problem. Phobos is not so easy, because some people simply don't know, which form of transcription is better (which letters are adequate).
I think, that Phobos is better in English texts and Fobos is better for some other languages (I suppose Spanish and so on).
I guess that with Venera, they simply resign on form with similar pronunciation, because adequate letters doesn't exists in German (and Roman) languages for this word (in Czech we write Veněra, which sounds very close to russian form, in English - "Venyera"?).
I found more similar cases, when Russian authors used "intuitive" transcription to English, for example Ganimed (Ganymede) or Kalisto (Callisto).

QUOTE (stevesliva @ Nov 7 2011, 06:09 PM) *
Do you prefer Sliva or Sliwa? Must know.


I don't know (actually I never found this cross-language problems so important).
It depends how it is pronouced and on the origin of your name. Maybe it's derived from Czech word Slíva (plum). smile.gif
Then "v" is better. But more important is, what you prefer. smile.gif

BTW, we need some Russians here! smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SpaceListener
post Nov 7 2011, 10:33 PM
Post #417


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 242
Joined: 19-August 07
Member No.: 3299



Russia has traditionally failed all landing missions in Mars. Now, with the Phobos-Grunt mission is so ambitious and somewhat more complicated than the past landings on Mars due to the additional calculations and ephemeral data to catch the phobos moon before landing (landing this is easier than on Mars). Now I see Russia is recurring the radar tracking support from ESA which is of vital importance for the success of the mission with precise position of the space. About the ephemeral data, will Russia obtain from NASA with its vast good data?

I wish this mission would be a success since Russia must have already learned all past lessons (without or little or not enough cooperation versus now with more cooperation with other nations).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MERovingian
post Nov 8 2011, 12:25 AM
Post #418


Junior Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 37
Joined: 14-January 07
From: France
Member No.: 1602



GEmin1,

Thank you for the link! It's gonna be precious tomorrow afternoon!!

And thanks for correcting the price tag! I can't even remember now where I read that it was 64 million dollars! huh.gif

GO FOBOS-GRUNT!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ulysses
post Nov 8 2011, 04:44 AM
Post #419


Junior Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 23
Joined: 16-May 08
Member No.: 4112



QUOTE (MERovingian @ Nov 8 2011, 01:25 AM) *
GEmin1,

Thank you for the link! It's gonna be precious tomorrow afternoon!!

And thanks for correcting the price tag! I can't even remember now where I read that it was 64 million dollars! huh.gif

GO FOBOS-GRUNT!

I could throw in my Dutch take on the whole Ph/F issue. I won't! tongue.gif I just want to see Russia successfully rejoin the interplanetary club! Fingers crossed, and this will be the site where I hope to find all the updates.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nprev
post Nov 8 2011, 09:26 AM
Post #420


Senior Member
****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 6830
Joined: 8-December 05
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 602



I really hope that some fluent Russian speakers will join us here for the launch; they would be most welcome! Suspect that the launch commentary will not be in English, so those of us who are generally not as linguistically skilled (me and <cough><cough> most of my fellow Americans <choke!>) are gonna be pretty lost... rolleyes.gif

GO FOBOS-GRUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!


--------------------
A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

45 Pages V  « < 26 27 28 29 30 > » 
Closed TopicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th April 2014 - 05:49 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is a project of the Planetary Society and is funded by donations from visitors and members. Help keep this forum up and running by contributing here.