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Phobos-Grunt
Guest_AlexBlackwell_*
post Jun 19 2006, 09:14 PM
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QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jun 19 2006, 09:06 PM) *
Here is a mystery photo for you all. There is something very interesting in this picture. Do you see it?

What, the Lavochkin and/or Babakin version of a "clean room"? laugh.gif
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Bob Shaw
post Jun 19 2006, 11:31 PM
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QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jun 19 2006, 10:06 PM) *
It's certainly something they've wanted to do for a long time.

[attachment=6323:attachment]

Here is a mystery photo for you all. There is something very interesting in this picture. Do you see it?



Don:

Er...

Bob Shaw


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tedstryk
post Jun 19 2006, 11:47 PM
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Don't see a picture...


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Guest_AlexBlackwell_*
post Jun 19 2006, 11:48 PM
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QUOTE (tedstryk @ Jun 19 2006, 11:47 PM) *
Don't see a picture...

Yeah, it's gone. Strange. I saw it earlier when I replied to the post.
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RNeuhaus
post Jun 20 2006, 03:25 AM
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QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Jun 19 2006, 03:57 PM) *
I'm not stating absolutely that this mission will never fly. I hope it does. And anything (e.g., the Russians putting together Phobos-Grunt in 36 months) is possible, I guess. However, I need to see a lot more than what has been shown so far before I become a believer. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I've seen the Russians basically chumming the waters for partners with mission concepts and no one has bitten. I don't even think the Russians believe they can pull off the mission alone. If they did, why would they be concerned that, as Covault reports, the U.S. isn't showing enough interest? My fear is that U.S. dollars will be tied up in this effort. I say let the Russians first show they can do it, and if they're successful, then I have no doubt that potential partners will be lining up.

It is very well known of Russian's past missions to Mars which ended with 100% of failures for landers and some success for orbiters. It is of the year 80's, more than 25 years ago, at that time, there were NO cooperation between RSA and NASA (none ephemerals data) and the technology were very much backward.

Then now, these days, there is cooperation between them about the ephemerals data? The space technology of RSA is not so much backward as before. In spite of the fact of changing time, I think that the RSA mission to Phobos-Grunt is still of moderate risk since RSA has never tried a similar mission. I won't compare it as Earth - Moon versus Earth- Mars - Phobos which is somewhat more complicated since that mission there is one hoop additional (inter-planetary). That is the first kind of mission, return from another planet! that would be a deed that Russian likes according to long space history! smile.gif

Rodolfo
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ljk4-1
post Jun 20 2006, 12:36 PM
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QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Jun 19 2006, 07:48 PM) *
Yeah, it's gone. Strange. I saw it earlier when I replied to the post.


All of Don Mitchell's images in the Spacecraft Images thread are gone as well.

What happened?


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"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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djellison
post Jun 20 2006, 12:52 PM
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Not sure what's going on. The images all remain safe within the uploads folder, so they are certainly not 'gone'.

I'm going to check up with variaous support forums etc, see if anyone knows of a symptom like this. Very strange indeed.

Doug
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tedstryk
post Jun 20 2006, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Jun 20 2006, 03:25 AM) *
It is very well known of Russian's past missions to Mars which ended with 100% of failures for landers and some success for orbiters. It is of the year 80's, more than 25 years ago, at that time, there were NO cooperation between RSA and NASA (none ephemerals data) and the technology were very much backward.

Then now, these days, there is cooperation between them about the ephemerals data? The space technology of RSA is not so much backward as before. In spite of the fact of changing time, I think that the RSA mission to Phobos-Grunt is still of moderate risk since RSA has never tried a similar mission. I won't compare it as Earth - Moon versus Earth- Mars - Phobos which is somewhat more complicated since that mission there is one hoop additional (inter-planetary). That is the first kind of mission, return from another planet! that would be a deed that Russian likes according to long space history! smile.gif

Rodolfo


Actually, I believe their was cooperation on Phobos-2. In fact, Americans were involved in tracking the spacecraft to determine the decay rate of the orbit of Phobos (the moon, not Phobos-2). There was also limited exchange of data on the earlier missions.


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ljk4-1
post Jun 20 2006, 01:45 PM
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QUOTE (djellison @ Jun 20 2006, 08:52 AM) *
Not sure what's going on. The images all remain safe within the uploads folder, so they are certainly not 'gone'.

I'm going to check up with variaous support forums etc, see if anyone knows of a symptom like this. Very strange indeed.

Doug


Is the 1 MB limit for attachments causing this? I was wondering how Don
could post so many images - not that I'm complaining, mind you.


--------------------
"After having some business dealings with men, I am occasionally chagrined,
and feel as if I had done some wrong, and it is hard to forget the ugly circumstance.
I see that such intercourse long continued would make one thoroughly prosaic, hard,
and coarse. But the longest intercourse with Nature, though in her rudest moods, does
not thus harden and make coarse. A hard, sensible man whom we liken to a rock is
indeed much harder than a rock. From hard, coarse, insensible men with whom I have
no sympathy, I go to commune with the rocks, whose hearts are comparatively soft."

- Henry David Thoreau, November 15, 1853

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Bob Shaw
post Jun 20 2006, 01:54 PM
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Doug:

Maybe you can raise the limits re size/quantity of posts for A Selected Few? Don's posts would qualify for special treatment by any criteria, IMHO.

Darn. Just got my post allocation chopped to 10k, have I?

Bob Shaw


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djellison
post Jun 20 2006, 02:07 PM
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http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=2878

(totally unrealted to attachment limits - and indeed, Don is the sort of guy whereby if he reached the limit - I'd increase it )

Doug
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Guest_AlexBlackwell_*
post Jul 17 2006, 07:36 PM
Post #72





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Craig Covault, reporting from the Farnborough 2006 Air Show, has an interesting article ("Mars Phobos Mission Readied As Russia Weighs Goals") in the July 17, 2006, issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology. Rather than quoting excerpts, which is tough to do while maintaining context, and which also misses some of the Lavochkin artwork, I'll go ahead and attach the article in this message.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Mars_Phobos_Mission_Readied_As_Russia_Weighs_Goals.pdf ( 142.62K ) Number of downloads: 1012
 
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nprev
post Jul 20 2006, 12:01 AM
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blink.gif ...ambitious, hope that it flies!!!

I wonder how long the surface sample acquisition & return launch process is anticipated to last. The three-year timeframe sure reminds me of the manned Mars landing proposals that only permitted a ten-day surface stay...not a lot of schedule slack there, especially if there are problems... huh.gif

EDIT: Whoops...I may have confused that (presumably Hohmann) trajectory stay time with that of a much faster nuclear-powered trip that featured something like a six-month dash each way. Can someone please clarify?


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A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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jamescanvin
post Jul 20 2006, 01:06 AM
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It says 11 months transit each way.

It also says the lander is designed to last a year on the surface.


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Guest_AlexBlackwell_*
post Jul 20 2006, 01:49 AM
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Note that Zakharov et al. have a related abstract for the upcoming European Planetary Science Conference 2006.
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