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Phobos-Grunt
konangrit
post Sep 19 2006, 09:31 AM
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QUOTE
Perminov also said China may sign a contract to participate in a Russian project to bring soil back from one of Mars' moons - Phobos.

"One of the directions we are working in is a flight to Phobos, with Chinese participation, which will bring back some of its soil to Earth," Perminov said. "We plan to reach the final stage [of our talks] by the end of 2006, possibly even by the start of the sub-commission's work under Prime Minister Mikhail Fradkov."


Russia, China could sign Moon exploration pact in 2006
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IM4
post Sep 21 2006, 06:17 PM
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In fact after global redesigning in 2003 some of Fobos-Grunt payload (50-100 kg) had been allocated for additional scientific instruments, presumably of foreign origin (european first of all). That’s the opportunity we offer to Chinese and some agreement had been finally reached. The kind of payload is still to be determined. It can be some instrument or even small exploration probe like japanese “Minerva”, which failed to land on Itokawa. The main question is whether Chinese manage to meet deadline of 2009 year launch.

By now launch date remains steady and funding increases progressively every year. First technological model of spacecraft was manufactured this summer and already shipped to vibrotesting. So we have all chances to make Fobos-Grunt a reality.

Of course this is a very ambitious mission, even more complex and difficult than Hayabusa. Fobos-Grunt will perform actual landing, not hovering in Haybusa’s style, that’s much more risky and greatly depend on too many circumstances which are still unknown. For example there is still exist no accurate map of Phobos. We need map with resolution of 30 cm to detect all potentially hazardous rubbles and slopes, but currently only 3-5 m resolution available. Nonetheless after preliminary investigations several landing sites were chosen. Primary site is located near 20 S, 315 W. This is equatorial region on Mars-facing side of Phobos , in its trailing hemisphere. See picture , I tried to attach. Smooth terrain without significant rubbles or grooves spans 310-360 W longitude and 40 S – 10 N latitude. Suitable place for landing and for observation - almost all the sky will be filled with Mars. After deorbit from near-Phobos trajectory landing ellipse has sizes of approximately 800x400 meters, but actually spacecraft can be autonomously guided to the chosen site within accuracy of ~10 m. Rather tricky, but paraphrasing famous sentence : “We choose to go to the Phobos till the end of decade, not ‘cause it easy, but ‘cause it hard.” smile.gif
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Phil Stooke
post Sep 21 2006, 07:22 PM
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Thank you for this interesting contribution.

Can you say if a scientific paper will be published or a conference presentation will be made concerning the site selection process?

I remember discussing this with some people from GEOKHI several years ago. At that time a site on the northeast rim of Stickney was thought to be a possible site.

Phil Stooke


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RNeuhaus
post Sep 21 2006, 07:23 PM
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Welcome IM4. Your report was very interesting. Shall you let us know where do you get the above information? Is there a Phobos-Grunt project WEB portal?

Rodolfo
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MaxSt
post Sep 21 2006, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE (IM4 @ Sep 21 2006, 02:17 PM) *
Suitable place for landing and for observation - almost all the sky will be filled with Mars.


That would make for some great panoramas from the ground, I imagine... smile.gif
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IM4
post Sep 22 2006, 08:50 AM
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QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Sep 21 2006, 07:22 PM) *
I remember discussing this with some people from GEOKHI several years ago. At that time a site on the northeast rim of Stickney was thought to be a possible site.

There are several possible sites, i suppose. Ultimate decision will be made only after detailed imaging. You are right about Stickney rim, such a place was also under consideration, for example see this abstract from LPSC-2000 by Kuzmin, Shingareva. However their later papers in the "Astronomicheskiy vestnik" ("Astronomical bulletin") were referred to another places. As far as I know Springer is currently republishing "Astronomicheskiy vestnik", but I don’t know exact English title for this journal.

QUOTE
Is there a Phobos-Grunt project WEB portal?

I doubt if such portal really exists. Information about Fobos-Grunt is dispersed among numerous articles, interviews and press-releases. I’ve just summarized some materials into single message.
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RNeuhaus
post Sep 29 2006, 11:16 PM
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A new update.

Russia Hopes To Launch Craft To Mission Mars Moon Phobos In 2009

The interesting points are:

1) He said there will be no need to use heavy carrier rockets, which make such launches very expensive.

2) The launch window for the voyage to Phobos is October 2009, and the journey will take 10-11 months. The spacecraft will begin its return journey to earth in 2011, which will take another 10-11 months.


Rodolfo
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Phil Stooke
post Sep 29 2006, 11:45 PM
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There is this Phobos website:

http://www.kiam1.rssi.ru/PHOBOS/

(in russian...) - at the Keldysh Institute of Applied Mathematics. Some links lead to English text.

Phil


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RNeuhaus
post Sep 30 2006, 12:13 AM
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Phi, Many thanks for posting the URL. wink.gif

Rodolfo
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konangrit
post Nov 14 2006, 08:24 AM
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QUOTE
...Nosenko said that Russia had agreed to help China in its lunar research program and China would also take part in Russia's project of sending an unmanned probe to Mars' moon, Phobos, to take soil samples and deliver them back to Earth.



China will build a mini-satellite that would be carried by the Russian probe and released in the vicinity of Mars to conduct research, said Georgy Polishchuk, the head of the NPO Lavochkin company, which is working on the mission. It is set to launch in 2009...


Russia, China Plan Joint Space projects
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infocat13
post Nov 16 2006, 02:08 AM
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Perhaps HIRISE could assist with site selection?
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tuvas
post Nov 16 2006, 03:48 AM
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QUOTE (infocat13 @ Nov 15 2006, 07:08 PM) *
Perhaps HIRISE could assist with site selection?



I doubt it, I would guess that HiRISE won't get that great of resolution of Phobos, but I'm too lazy to do the math myself... Just would like to know what the Russian's fascination with Phobos is...
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Stu
post Nov 16 2006, 06:27 AM
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QUOTE (tuvas @ Nov 16 2006, 03:48 AM) *
Just would like to know what the Russian's fascination with Phobos is...


Hmmmm. Well, its often been compared in shape to "a big, blackened potato", and potatoes are a staple part of the Russian diet. Maybe a Russian Hoagland has convinced the powers that be over there that it could be brought back to Earth and used to feed everyone... rolleyes.gif


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djellison
post Nov 16 2006, 08:00 AM
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QUOTE (tuvas @ Nov 16 2006, 03:48 AM) *
I doubt it, I would guess that HiRISE won't get that great of resolution of Phobos, but I'm too lazy to do the math myself.


Well - roughly speaking, am I right in thinking that if you take the range in km, take a zero off, you can call it about that many cm/pixel ( i.e. 250-300k orbit = 25-20cm/pixel )

So - a good Phobos targetting opportunity would be about 10m/pixel, and Deimos about 25m/pixel

Doug
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Phil Stooke
post Nov 16 2006, 02:18 PM
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tuvas: "Just would like to know what the Russian's fascination with Phobos is..."

It's a niche not yet exploited by others, and a valuable science target in its own right. First landing, first samples, chance of Mars material among the samples, solve controversy over its origin - lots of good reasons to go there.

Phil


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