[X] My Assistant

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

That discussion of the likelihood of a successful escape from the Apollo 13 second stage is in the entry by "Joema" at 8:16 PM on 1/28/06 in the "Bad Astronomy" forum: http://bautforum.com/showthread.php?p=708696 .

[Bob Shaw]

That discussion of the likelihood of a successful escape from the Apollo 13 second stage is in the entry by "Joema" at 8:16 PM on 1/28/06 in the "Bad Astronomy" forum: http://bautforum.com/showthread.php?p=708696 .

Bruce:

Thanks - an interesting discussion, and also about Challenger. I don't think the Apollo abort modes were all quite so survivable as fond memories suggest, you're quite right!

One thing that wasn't mentioned, and which has always struck me as being a pretty horrible aspect of the Challenger accident, was the reasonable likelihood of the forward Orbiter RCS assembly having also done for the crew. The RCS exploded just after breakup (you can see it in the Rogers Commission accident report, which identifies the characteristic coloured smoke at the tip of the cabin as being the RCS blowing) and created a local overpressure and released highly toxic, hot gas. If the forward cabin windows ruptured (right beside the RCS) then the last few conscious moments of the crew, and in particular the pilots, would have been very nasty indeed. I've never seen any discussion of the state of the windows when the debris was recovered, or of residues from the monomethyl hydrazine (MMH) used by the RCS in and around the crew cabin.

Bob Shaw

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

Bruce:

Thanks - an interesting discussion, and also about Challenger. I don't think the Apollo abort modes were all quite so survivable as fond memories suggest, you're quite right!

One thing that wasn't mentioned, and which has always struck me as being a pretty horrible aspect of the Challenger accident, was the reasonable likelihood of the forward Orbiter RCS assembly having also done for the crew. The RCS exploded just after breakup (you can see it in the Rogers Commission accident report, which identifies the characteristic coloured smoke at the tip of the cabin as being the RCS blowing) and created a local overpressure and released highly toxic, hot gas. If the forward cabin windows ruptured (right beside the RCS) then the last few conscious moments of the crew, and in particular the pilots, would have been very nasty indeed. I've never seen any discussion of the state of the windows when the debris was recovered, or of residues from the monomethyl hydrazine (MMH) used by the RCS in and around the crew cabin.

Bob Shaw

Well, we do know that Judith Resnik apparently had enough presence of mind even after the explosion to start handing out emergency oxygen masks. (When one has nothing but straws to grasp at, one grasps at straws.) This doesn't surprise me -- from her interviews, I always regarded the lady as being able to chew nails and spit out filings -- but it does indicate that they weren't drenched enough in hydrazine to make thinking impossible.

By the way, Aviation Week's editor Robert Hotz, who was on the Challenger Accident Board, claims that NASA found Christa McAuliffe's battery-powered voice recorder, and that it recorded everything in their last moments -- which NASA has never released. But then I'm not sure it should be released. Really, this particular discussion is so ghoulish that it strikes even me as being in bad taste.

[ljk4-1]

Well, we do know that Judith Resnik apparently had enough presence of mind even after the explosion to start handing out emergency oxygen masks. (When one has nothing but straws to grasp at, one grasps at straws.) This doesn't surprise me -- from her interviews, I always regarded the lady as being able to chew nails and spit out filings -- but it does indicate that they weren't drenched enough in hydrazine to make thinking impossible.

How do they know it was Judith Resnick, aside from her pre-proven strength and skills?

[Bob Shaw]

How do they know it was Judith Resnick, aside from her pre-proven strength and skills?

The personal oxygen packs for the pilot and co-pilot had to have been turned on by the person sitting behind them - Judith Resnick. Upon recovery, the packs were found to have been used - it's that simple!

Bob Shaw

[GravityWaves]

"we've had an anomaly"

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9701/17/rocket.exp...xplosion.36.mov

Very good, live-footage and lots of fireworks
..I hope nobody got hurt

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

Somebody should really start collecting those NASA euphemisms -- they'll always come in handy in delivering government war news.

That particular explosion was literally pretty; but I miss the soundtrack, which NBC News provided in its brief news report that evening. It made quite a bang.

[paxdan]

Somebody should really start collecting those NASA euphemisms

not NASA but a great euphemism from the US gov nonetheless:

'spontaneous energetic disassembly'

Have always liked that one. It sounds like something that might happen at an especially good party.

[Bob Shaw]

There's a regular 'Straight & Level' page at the back of Flight International where Uncle Roger runs a continuing series of aviation and military doublespeak ('Yuck speak (series of 1,000,000)'). He's always entertaining!

You can submit choice nonsense to him at: roger.bacon@flightinternational.com

Bob Shaw

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

Regarding military doublespeak, the number of euphemisms for "kill" has always been especially impressive. Lenin was absolutely brilliant at coming up with them -- nobody EVER abused language more effectively than Lenin -- but even he never came up with anything to match the CIA's "permanently immobilize" (as in "Thou shalt not permanently immobilize").

[ljk4-1]

Regarding military doublespeak, the number of euphemisms for "kill" has always been especially impressive. Lenin was absolutely brilliant at coming up with them -- nobody EVER abused language more effectively than Lenin -- but even he never came up with anything to match the CIA's "permanently immobilize" (as in "Thou shalt not permanently immobilize").

Actually, I would say that Monty Python came up with the best
Orwellian words for dead: E's restin'.

http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/jokes/monty-python-parrot.html

[tty]

Here is an interesting link courtesy of ijk4-1 from another thread:

http://www.contrailsmagazine.com/1.3/1.3PD...ails2(SR71).pdf

As far as I know this is the first detailed description of this incident that has only been rumour before. What is significant here is that an "ejection" (actually the aircraft broke up) can be survivable even at Mach 3+ and 80,000 feet without an escape capsule.

tty

[tty]

DELETED UNINTENDED DUPLICATE POSTING.

Question: how do you delete a whole post?

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

DELETED UNINTENDED DUPLICATE POSTING.

Question: how do you delete a whole post?

The real question for me, given my fiasco on the Lunar Impactor story, is how you delete a whole news article...

[djellison]

You can't delete your own posts - but you can go back and edit them, and and leave just "Double post, please delete" or something like that

Doug