A Real Sun Probe, Take the Solar Plunge Options

[ljk4-1]

Any serious plans to send a probe into the Sun to explore its depths as far as possible?

What would help a probe last as long as it could and how deep could it get?

Could it even radio or laser out any data?

What about a Sun skimmer?

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

Richard Trigaux, alas, is too optimistic about the Genesis scientists being able to retrieve "most" of their planned data. The latest news is that they will indeed be able to properly measure the amount of noble gases in the Sun, since those (except for argon-40, which is irrelevant) exist only in microscopic amounts in Earth's atmosphere and water, and so weren't affected by the crash's contamination. But that was only their third scientific priority -- the top ones were to measure the isotopic ratios of the Sun's oxygen and nitrogen (especially the former), and unfortunately those have been very badly contaminated indeed. It's questionable whether they'll be able to retrieve any meaningful results on those.

As for Solar Probe -- whose design has been modestly changed lately, without harming its total science output -- see the very informative official Web page at http://solarprobe.gsfc.nasa.gov/ . Solar scientists would absolutely love to fly this mission, but it will cost as much as a New Frontiers mission and so NASA has yet even to officially propose it. (It's even been suggested that it should be included in the New Frontiers program. But that, in turn raises the question of whether ALL competitive-proposal programs for space science -- Solar System, Mars, astronomy, magnetospheric science or what have you -- that are in the same cost range should be folded up together into a single competitive space-science proposal program, which might well make sense.)

There is no doubt at all, however, that we can make Solar Probe work -- amazingly, we already have almost all the technology we need for it. Extensive ground tests of that dunce-cap shaped carbon heat shield show that not only does it provide full protection against the heat, but it vaporizes considerably less than expected and so won't contaminate the probe's plasma measurements. The only thing that requires any additional work at this point is the design for the "plasma periscope" that would peep around the edge of the heat shield and divert a small amount of the outflowing solar plasma to the analyzers behind the shield.

[Guest_Richard Trigaux_*]

Richard Trigaux, alas, is too optimistic about the Genesis scientists being able to retrieve "most" of their planned data.  The latest news is that they will indeed be able to properly measure the amount of noble gases in the Sun, since those (except for argon-40, which is irrelevant) exist only in microscopic amounts in Earth's atmosphere and water, and so weren't affected by the crash's contamination.  But that was only their third scientific priority -- the top ones were to measure the isotopic ratios of the Sun's oxygen and nitrogen (especially the former), and unfortunately those have been very badly contaminated indeed.  It's questionable whether they'll be able to retrieve any meaningful results on those.

The team first came with an optimistic statement, pity of it did not worked. There was many expectations about this experiment.

As for Solar Probe -- whose design has been modestly changed lately, without harming its total science output -- see the very informative official Web page at  http://solarprobe.gsfc.nasa.gov/ .  Solar scientists would absolutely love to fly this mission, but it will cost as much as a New Frontiers mission and so NASA has yet even to officially propose it.  (It's even been suggested that it should be included in the New Frontiers program.  But that, in turn raises the question of whether ALL competitive-proposal programs for space science -- Solar System, Mars, astronomy, magnetospheric science or what have you -- that are in the same cost range should be folded up together into a single competitive space-science proposal program, which might well make sense.)

There is no doubt at all, however, that we can make Solar Probe work -- amazingly, we already have almost all the technology we need for it.  Extensive ground tests of that dunce-cap shaped carbon heat shield show that not only does it provide full protection against the heat, but it vaporizes considerably less than expected and so won't contaminate the probe's plasma measurements.  The only thing that requires any additional work at this point is the design for the "plasma periscope" that would peep around the edge of the heat shield and divert a small amount of the outflowing solar plasma to the analyzers behind the shield.

So there is REALLY such a project?

Woww.

Thank you for the link, Bruce, it is very interesting. I hope such a mission will fly one day.

Of course at only 4 sun radii of the surface of the sun, it will be unmanned. Not yet any Bush plan for Sun colonization?

And for the great dive INTO the Sun, we shall see a bit later.

[ljk4-1]

The team first came with an optimistic statement, pity of it did not worked. There was many expectations about this experiment.
So there is REALLY such a project?

Woww.

Thank you for the link, Bruce, it is very interesting. I hope such a mission will fly one day.

Of course at only 4 sun radii of the surface of the sun, it will be unmanned. Not yet any Bush plan for Sun colonization?

And for the great dive INTO the Sun, we shall see a bit later.

Maybe if we tell Bush there's a lot of oil on the Sun....

[Guest_Richard Trigaux_*]

Maybe if we tell Bush there's a lot of oil on the Sun....

Yes, there is plenty, it is called solar energy.

[antoniseb]

It would be possible to create a probe that could reach the photosphere, and continue into the body of the Sun a short way. There is a lot of question as to how it might communicate out of the Sun. Communication might be possible with x-ray lasers. Anything with a lower photon energy might get absorbed pretty quickly by the plasma.

This is not a realistic plan for the short term future, but you can imagine a craft that has a mass of billions of tons, and has a mechanism for spraying an opaque cloud out in front of it to shield the vessel with disposable shielding. Alternatively, or in addition, you might have a conveyer belt of rigid shielding that only exposes the individual tiles to the Sun for a small fraction of the time. Excess heat is blown off in the opaque jets previously described, or used to heat gases to thrust out the back.

The Photosphere's density is very low. It would take quite a while for a billion ton object to be vaporized if it was well designed. Just as a wild guess, such a craft could potentially descend a thousand miles.