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Going To Mogollon..., ...and points South
Bill Harris
post Jan 20 2006, 02:30 PM
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QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Jan 20 2006, 05:38 AM)
It was already said that those structures seen on previous hazcam pics (well, in all sort of cameras and filters...) were delicate.

[attachment=3535:attachment] (138k)
But what about these ones? It looks like the smallest touch could broke them.

[attachment=3536:attachment] (138k)
PS: It's time to open a new thread, don't you think so?
*


Good idea. That topic was "tired" and had the cord showing. smile.gif biggrin.gif tongue.gif

Delicate, to be sure. One thing I've noticed is that the "ledge-forming" rocks are a layer and extend to the right and left of where we camped out. I wonder if that feature is related to the bluff at Mogollon Rim?

We need to check out the "mobile dust" at that site and see if there has been more movement during the stopover.
--Bill


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Tesheiner
post Feb 16 2006, 05:35 PM
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Not only that, but the rover would have to make the whole way around the crater to it's southern size (northern looking wall) AND find a path into the crater.
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Toma B
post Feb 16 2006, 06:59 PM
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QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Feb 16 2006, 08:35 PM) *
Not only that, but the rover would have to make the whole way around the crater to it's southern size (northern looking wall) AND find a path into the crater.

Oh, but we aren't going to Victoria just yet as Jim Bell says... sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif
There are some more places around that they want to see, and maybe then they will decide that there are some more places nearby, after that there will be some more IDD to be done here, after that there will be some things that we have never seen before...
Opportunity will never reach Victoria Crater at this pace...PLEASE make up your mind and start DRIVING!!!
sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif


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My "Astrophotos" gallery on flickr...
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Marcel
post Feb 16 2006, 07:47 PM
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B)-->
QUOTE(Toma B @ Feb 16 2006, 07:59 PM) *

Opportunity will never reach Victoria Crater at this pace...PLEASE make up your mind and start DRIVING!!!
sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif
[/quote]

I can understand the frustration. I'd love to see the place as well: the possibility to reach it is there, and this will diminish every day that long drives south are postponed and mechanics and electronics are aging.

But (and it's said before often): This mission is not about pretty pictures, it's about science. About understanding what we see. Try to reconstruct what happened on this part of the surface. Relate morphology with rock/soil composition (while the cobalt source still radiates within workable levels, before it's out of operation), look for geologic context. And: do it as thoroughly as possible. This, combined with the knowledge that the quality of the scientific results is highly dependent on the quantity (that is: statistically reliable) AND te quality of the data (that is: complete, without forgetting to record just about everything that's within the capability of the instruments). And this costs time. A lot of it. And this is why we're not in Victoria (yet). It's a balance between continuing the trek across the line southward and feeding hunger for new terrain, and relating it to the knowledge that returning to a spot to fill a gap in the data is probably not going to be an option.

In other words: it's choosing between knowing some things for sure (like the prime target: pinning down water related processes), than a lot of things superficially.
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helvick
post Feb 16 2006, 08:29 PM
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Victoria is apparently somewhere between 2500 and 3000m away depending on the route taken.

To see how realistic a target it is I'm making some assumptions:
1. Driving consumes approximately 100watts between the drive motors and navigation processing\imaging.
2. 0.5 cm/sec is a realistic speed for driving aggresively but with some care (so as to avoid another Purgatory).
3. Dust accumulation will cause additional power loss at a rate of 0.18% per Sol (this should be a worst case situation).
4. Oppy doesn't get stuck.
5. We start driving soon.

Opportunity should have enough power available over the next 94 sols (when power will drop just below 400 whr) to drive about 3300m.

To achieve that she would have to start soon and initially average around 50-60m per Sol. By the time she reaches Victoria she would be driving for about 18m per Sol.

I haven't factored in things like restricted Sols but there is a 10-30% margin in the above numbers depending on route and my calculations target reaching Victoria when power is still approx 400whr per Sol so she still has enough juice to do some real work\find a nice sunny ledge to park on for winter.
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Marz
post Feb 16 2006, 10:48 PM
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QUOTE (helvick @ Feb 16 2006, 02:29 PM) *
Victoria is apparently somewhere between 2500 and 3000m away depending on the route taken.
.... To achieve that she would have to start soon and initially average around 50-60m per Sol. By the time she reaches Victoria she would be driving for about 18m per Sol.


Yikes! 50m/Sol is pretty aggressive around Erebus. Maybe if the dunes flatten out a bit. The manuevering up to Erebus was pretty darn slow, with few drives being more than 20m.

Well, as Daffy Duck would sing, "you never know where you're goin' till ya get there!"
ph34r.gif
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Marslauncher
post Feb 17 2006, 02:20 AM
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So didnt I read that we should have had a drive? hope the pictures come down soon!

I am itching to see new pictures!

John Cooke
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Shaka
post Feb 17 2006, 03:49 AM
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QUOTE (Marslauncher @ Feb 16 2006, 04:20 PM) *
So didnt I read that we should have had a drive? hope the pictures come down soon!

I am itching to see new pictures!

John Cooke

There's an epidemic of that kind of pruritis, John. But the drive was aborted due to continuing arm stalls. sad.gif sad.gif sad.gif
QUOTE
Sol 734: The plan for this sol was to stow the arm, drive about 36 meters (118 feet) to an area known as "Zane Grey," and unstow the arm. The arm stalled just before it reached the ready position (before stowing), and the drive did not occur.

Latest JPL update. Can anybody calculate where this Zane Grey is, 36m from our present position? Is it the black rubble pile or is it the rim proper?


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Posts in this topic
- Bill Harris   Going To Mogollon...   Jan 20 2006, 02:30 PM
- - lyford   Does it look like there was any piled deposition o...   Jan 20 2006, 05:28 PM
- - Bill Harris   Ed, it may very well be that sand has piled up n t...   Jan 20 2006, 07:03 PM
- - Tesheiner   An article at Space.com: http://www.space.com/mis...   Jan 21 2006, 06:10 PM
- - Sunspot   ..week or so?   Jan 21 2006, 07:40 PM
- - ilbasso   They didn't say which week.   Jan 22 2006, 05:16 AM
- - CosmicRocker   Well, that pretty much confirms that more MIs of t...   Jan 22 2006, 06:48 AM
- - Bill Harris   > I am really anxious to get to Mogollon, but i...   Jan 22 2006, 07:54 AM
|- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Jan 22 2006, 07:54 AM)We...   Jan 22 2006, 03:20 PM
- - Bill Harris   Foo. --Bill   Jan 22 2006, 06:30 PM
- - alan   QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Jan 21 2006, 12:10 PM)An a...   Jan 29 2006, 08:54 PM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (alan @ Jan 29 2006, 10:54 AM)Oppy leav...   Jan 29 2006, 09:26 PM
- - dot.dk   QUOTE (alan @ Jan 29 2006, 08:54 PM)Oppy leav...   Jan 29 2006, 09:42 PM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (dot.dk @ Jan 29 2006, 11:42 AM)From: h...   Jan 30 2006, 01:27 AM
- - jvandriel   The last images are down and here is the 360 degre...   Jan 30 2006, 09:50 AM
- - slinted   Since this is the thread for "...and points s...   Jan 31 2006, 12:21 AM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (slinted @ Jan 31 2006, 11:21 AM)Since ...   Jan 31 2006, 01:52 AM
- - Bill Harris   I have long commented jokingly that the "rout...   Jan 31 2006, 12:39 AM
- - SigurRosFan   No Mogollon Rim close-up's?? http://athena.co...   Jan 31 2006, 09:47 PM
|- - Toma B   QUOTE (SigurRosFan @ Feb 1 2006, 12:47 AM)No ...   Jan 31 2006, 09:57 PM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (SigurRosFan @ Jan 31 2006, 11:47 AM)No...   Jan 31 2006, 09:59 PM
- - Sunspot   According to the latest rover article at the Plane...   Feb 1 2006, 06:32 PM
|- - Nirgal   looks like they finally decided to switch the prio...   Feb 1 2006, 09:15 PM
|- - tacitus   QUOTE (Nirgal @ Feb 1 2006, 03:15 PM)looks li...   Feb 1 2006, 10:12 PM
|- - Nirgal   QUOTE (tacitus @ Feb 2 2006, 12:12 AM)Don...   Feb 2 2006, 12:53 AM
|- - Tesheiner   QUOTE (Nirgal @ Feb 2 2006, 01:53 AM)What I...   Feb 2 2006, 08:46 AM
- - RNeuhaus   The real interesting thing from Mogollon rim is th...   Feb 1 2006, 09:59 PM
- - Bill Harris   I will agree. If it hadn't been for the IDD p...   Feb 2 2006, 11:04 AM
- - Bill Harris   Presented here is a 3x vertical exaggeration from ...   Feb 16 2006, 02:01 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Anyone know what the strategy is for Opportunity r...   Feb 16 2006, 02:32 PM
- - Tesheiner   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Feb 16 2006, 03:32 PM) ...   Feb 16 2006, 02:45 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Feb 16 2006, 02:45 PM)...   Feb 16 2006, 03:47 PM
- - Burmese   http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=dn8...   Feb 16 2006, 03:33 PM
- - Bill Harris   Also since this site a only a couple of degrees So...   Feb 16 2006, 03:49 PM
- - djellison   Power 19% further out will be 41% lower, I think ...   Feb 16 2006, 03:51 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 16 2006, 03:51 PM)...   Feb 16 2006, 07:02 PM
|- - Nirgal   QUOTE (helvick @ Feb 16 2006, 08:02 PM) T...   Feb 16 2006, 07:45 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Burmese quoted a story from New Scientist, ...   Feb 16 2006, 05:26 PM
- - Tesheiner   Not only that, but the rover would have to make th...   Feb 16 2006, 05:35 PM
|- - Toma B   QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Feb 16 2006, 08:35 PM)...   Feb 16 2006, 06:59 PM
||- - Marcel   B)-->QUOTE(Toma B @ Feb 16 2006, 07:59 PM...   Feb 16 2006, 07:47 PM
||- - Nirgal   QUOTE (Marcel @ Feb 16 2006, 08:47 PM) Bu...   Feb 16 2006, 08:16 PM
|||- - Marcel   QUOTE (Nirgal @ Feb 16 2006, 09:16 PM) Im...   Feb 16 2006, 08:37 PM
||- - helvick   Victoria is apparently somewhere between 2500 and ...   Feb 16 2006, 08:29 PM
|||- - Marz   QUOTE (helvick @ Feb 16 2006, 02:29 PM) V...   Feb 16 2006, 10:48 PM
|||- - Marslauncher   So didnt I read that we should have had a drive? h...   Feb 17 2006, 02:20 AM
||||- - Shaka   QUOTE (Marslauncher @ Feb 16 2006, 04:20 ...   Feb 17 2006, 03:49 AM
||||- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (Shaka @ Feb 17 2006, 02:49 PM) ......   Feb 17 2006, 05:58 AM
|||||- - tacitus   Are they still trying to stow the arm completely o...   Feb 17 2006, 07:11 AM
|||||- - Tesheiner   QUOTE (tacitus @ Feb 17 2006, 08:11 AM) A...   Feb 17 2006, 09:07 AM
||||- - Tesheiner   QUOTE (Shaka @ Feb 17 2006, 04:49 AM) The...   Feb 17 2006, 08:56 AM
|||- - helvick   QUOTE (Marz @ Feb 16 2006, 10:48 PM) Yike...   Feb 18 2006, 10:16 PM
||- - bergadder   QUOTE (Marcel @ Feb 16 2006, 02:47 PM) --...   Feb 17 2006, 04:23 AM
||- - Marslauncher   I fully support science days and investigation, I ...   Feb 17 2006, 05:38 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Feb 16 2006, 05:35 PM)...   Feb 16 2006, 08:44 PM
- - Sunspot   The tech probs are really stacking up...Im beginin...   Feb 17 2006, 09:33 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Sunspot @ Feb 17 2006, 09:33 AM) ...   Feb 17 2006, 09:43 AM
|- - Marcel   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 17 2006, 10:43 AM)...   Feb 17 2006, 08:09 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Marcel @ Feb 17 2006, 08:09 PM) I ...   Feb 17 2006, 08:32 PM
|- - mars_armer   The simulations that have been run with an unstowe...   Feb 17 2006, 09:54 PM
|- - jamescanvin   QUOTE (mars_armer @ Feb 18 2006, 08:54 AM...   Feb 17 2006, 10:14 PM
|- - Jeff7   QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Feb 17 2006, 05:14 P...   Feb 18 2006, 01:47 AM
- - Bill Harris   QUOTE Imo, it's one of those two outcrops at t...   Feb 17 2006, 11:10 AM
|- - Tesheiner   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Feb 17 2006, 12:10 P...   Feb 17 2006, 12:23 PM
- - Bill Harris   "We'll get there eventually..." ...   Feb 17 2006, 01:33 PM
- - Bill Harris   I picked up a "proper" L2 Pancam today a...   Feb 17 2006, 05:02 PM
- - djellison   Looks like a little slice of a baby Burns Cliff in...   Feb 17 2006, 05:10 PM
- - Marz   I was just surfing the sol 734 images and noticed ...   Feb 17 2006, 07:55 PM
- - Bill Harris   The dark-toned dune is Payson. Zane Grey is the l...   Feb 17 2006, 08:06 PM
- - tacitus   I suppose one thing the stowing problems might mea...   Feb 18 2006, 08:37 AM
- - mars_armer   Actually, the present strategy means the arm is ne...   Feb 18 2006, 04:17 PM
|- - Cugel   QUOTE (mars_armer @ Feb 18 2006, 05:17 PM...   Feb 18 2006, 06:34 PM
||- - hugh   QUOTE (Cugel @ Feb 18 2006, 06:34 PM) can...   Feb 19 2006, 07:30 AM
|||- - Nirgal   Question: does this mean that when the joint motor...   Feb 19 2006, 10:27 PM
||- - Toma B   QUOTE (Cugel @ Feb 18 2006, 09:34 PM) Que...   Feb 20 2006, 07:03 AM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (mars_armer @ Feb 18 2006, 11:17 AM...   Feb 19 2006, 03:49 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Feb 19 2006, 03:49 AM) ...   Feb 19 2006, 09:35 AM
- - Holder of the Two Leashes   Probably get just a little bit more science done t...   Feb 19 2006, 09:13 PM
- - Sunspot   We're a couple of days away from spending 3 mo...   Feb 20 2006, 12:41 AM
- - alan   QUOTE (Nirgal @ Feb 19 2006, 04:27 PM) Qu...   Feb 20 2006, 12:51 AM
|- - tacitus   QUOTE (alan @ Feb 19 2006, 06:51 PM) I su...   Feb 20 2006, 02:23 AM
|- - hugh   QUOTE (tacitus @ Feb 20 2006, 02:23 AM) W...   Feb 20 2006, 08:39 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (hugh @ Feb 20 2006, 08:39 AM) Not ...   Feb 20 2006, 09:12 AM
- - Bill Harris   It would be nice to have the IDD instruments, but ...   Feb 20 2006, 02:48 AM
|- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Feb 20 2006, 02:48 A...   Feb 20 2006, 03:17 AM
- - neb   QUOTE (Bill Harris @ Feb 19 2006, 07:48 P...   Feb 20 2006, 03:21 AM
|- - Shaka   QUOTE (neb @ Feb 19 2006, 05:21 PM) Bill:...   Feb 20 2006, 04:46 AM
|- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (Shaka @ Feb 20 2006, 04:46 AM) I w...   Feb 20 2006, 04:28 PM
- - djellison   If the IDD breaks, then do what can be done with w...   Feb 20 2006, 08:34 AM
|- - JTN   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 20 2006, 08:34 AM)...   Feb 20 2006, 02:00 PM
|- - jabe   QUOTE (JTN @ Feb 20 2006, 02:00 PM) Could...   Feb 20 2006, 02:09 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (JTN @ Feb 20 2006, 02:00 PM) Could...   Feb 20 2006, 03:11 PM
- - jvandriel   A panoramic view of Mogollon. Taken on Sol 734 wi...   Feb 20 2006, 11:50 AM
- - Bill Harris   QUOTE They need to find a way to stow it and get m...   Feb 20 2006, 12:20 PM
|- - sranderson   Unfortunately, we haven't found anything new w...   Feb 20 2006, 07:28 PM
- - centsworth_II   If the IDD breaks while extended they could drive ...   Feb 20 2006, 03:28 PM
- - odave   I hate contributing more negative waves to the dis...   Feb 20 2006, 03:31 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (odave @ Feb 20 2006, 03:31 PM) I h...   Feb 20 2006, 04:50 PM
- - Tesheiner   Will we see "Oppy leaves Olympia (aka Purgato...   Feb 20 2006, 05:30 PM
- - djellison   Again - you're making the mistake in assuming ...   Feb 20 2006, 08:00 PM
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