[X] My Assistant

[tedstryk]

I have been wondering about something....given the performance of the MERs, if one or both survive this winter, is it not conceivable that they could be operational when Phoenix lands? It would, I believe, be the first landing on anything but the moon with other landers (other than parts of the same mission) still operational.

[akuo]

Um, Viking?

Well ok, they are the same mission. It would speak a lot about the longevity of MERs.

[djellison]

I think there's some potential for functional, if not 'mobile' Rovers come '07. I certianly think they'll last thru to MRO's science orbit, and as such could do simultanious observations out and into the atmosphere.

But that's a long way away, and a hell of a lot could go wrong between then and now, I wouldnt put money on it, but I wouldnt be suprised.

Doug

[tedstryk]

Um, Viking? 

Well ok, they are the same mission. It would speak a lot about the longevity of MERs.

If we are going to go the same mission route, Opportunity would be from the same mission as Spirit as well. But I was thinking about not-twin missions.

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

Well, you know, we're within two months of having four working and scientifically productive (and non-redundant) Mars orbiters simultaneously. I think that's quite impressive enough.

[hendric]

But I was thinking about not-twin missions.

This raised an interesting question: What's the success rate of twin missions vs one-shot?

Viking 1/2
Pioneer 10/11
Voyager 1/2
MER A/B
Mariner 1/2 (1 was destroyed during liftoff, so doesn't count)
Mariner 3/4/5 (3 was a shroud failure, so doesn't count)
Mariner 6/7

It's an interesting comparison, anyways.

[tedstryk]

This raised an interesting question:  What's the success rate of twin missions vs one-shot?

Viking 1/2
Pioneer 10/11
Voyager 1/2
MER A/B
Mariner 1/2 (1 was destroyed during liftoff, so doesn't count)
Mariner 3/4/5 (3 was a shroud failure, so doesn't count)
Mariner 6/7

It's an interesting comparison, anyways.

Don't forget that Mariner 8/9 fit the same pattern, as Mariner 8 was a launch failure.

[centsworth_II]

If still alive, I wonder if one of the rovers could see the entry fireball of Phoenix. It would be a great way of calibrating the images of possible meteors seen by the MERs.

[djellison]

I doubt it - Phoenix's landing site is going to be a long long way from the rovers. It'd be like trying to see the Stardust re-entry from Cuba.

Doug

[helvick]

I doubt it - Phoenix's landing site is going to be a long long way from the rovers.  It'd be like trying to see the Stardust re-entry from Cuba.

Doug

Yep - if we assume that the potentially visible entry stage begins at around 120km altitude it will only be visible within a zone that spans at most +-15deg from the re-entry track. Since Phoenix is going to land at ~70deg N any martian surface observer would have to be norrth of around 55deg to have any chance of seing it.

I think that even if you adjust for obliquity and the fact that it's approaching mid summer at landing time the lowest latitude you could possible see anything from would be ~32 deg N in the very unlikely event that the initial atmospheric entry happens at local midnight. I might be wrong in my assumptions on this one but I suspect that if even if I am the reality would be even less favourable.

[djellison]

Remember - Mars is much smaller than earth, so the horizon is much closer as well, if the exact path of Stardust were replicated on Earth, those lines showing visibility at specific elevations would be much much closer to the entry track

Doug

[helvick]

Remember - Mars is much smaller than earth, so the horizon is much closer as well, if the exact path of Stardust were replicated on Earth, those lines showing visibility at specific elevations would be much much closer to the entry track

Doug

Doug - I based those numbers on calculating horizon distances with a Martian radius (3397km), 1deg ~ 59km.

The 120km altitude is just a pure guess - I'm assuming that "entry" starts somewhere around there but I don't know for sure where it would actually happen.

[djellison]

Can't remember off hand, but on the EDL live coverage, Wayne Lee mentions that atmospheric entry occured fairly high, but deceleration didnt occur for about another minute or so, and I'd only expect to be able to see a plasma trail etc after deceleration starts to occur. perhaps 75km?

Looking at this
http://atmos.nmsu.edu/PDS/data/mpam_0001/edl_ddr/edl_ddr.tab
and this
http://atmos.nmsu.edu/PDS/data/mpam_0001/e...dr/r_eacc_s.tab

The peak decel was at 30 - 40km

Doug

[Guest_BruceMoomaw_*]

In this connection, Pioneer 12's imaging photopolarimeter was actually used to try and photograph the firing of Magellan's orbital insertion motor, but saw nothing. A pity.

[Guest_AlexBlackwell_*]

In this connection, Pioneer 12's imaging photopolarimeter was actually used to try and photograph the firing of Magellan's orbital insertion motor, but saw nothing.  A pity.

IIRC, wasn't there also an effort by HST to image the Galileo Probe entry? I also remember (dimly) some talk about doing the same thing for the orbital insertion burns of MGS and/or MCO.

[tty]

Since there might be up to four functioning orbiters around Mars when Phoenix lands it seems that there would be a good chance that one or more of them might have the landing site in view. A plasma trail should be fairly easy to see particularly at night. The location should be known within a few tens of kilometers and the time to within a second or two.

tty

[Deimos]

Since there might be up to four functioning orbiters around Mars when Phoenix lands it seems that there would be a good chance that one or more of them might have the landing site in view. A plasma trail should be fairly easy to see particularly at night.

It will be very difficult to see at night, mostly because Phoenix will be landing in the afternoon . But there should be better than a good chance an orbiter will have line of sight to Phoenix during EDL, since that is a requirement. However, I don't know whether imaging is consistent with the required UHF listening (that may depend on which orbiter).

[mcaplinger]

It will be very difficult to see at night, mostly because Phoenix will be landing in the afternoon . But there should be better than a good chance an orbiter will have line of sight to Phoenix during EDL...

I hope Phoenix lands in the daytime; I could quit working on MARDI/PHX if it doesn't.

We tried imaging the entries of both MERs using the MOC WA, and didn't see anything definitive.

[Guest_3488_*]

Mars Phoenix Lander will land during daylight, late afternoon.

The potential landing sites are all north of the Martian Arctic Circle.

Mid Summer Solstice on Mars will be on 24th June 2008, just three days after that on Earth (a strange co-incidence).

Mars Phoenix Lander hopefully will take time lapse images of the Martian Midnight Sun!!!

Andrew Brown.

[nprev]

I think there's some potential for functional, if not 'mobile' Rovers come '07. I certianly think they'll last thru to MRO's science orbit, and as such could do simultanious observations out and into the atmosphere.

But that's a long way away, and a hell of a lot could go wrong between then and now, I wouldnt put money on it, but I wouldnt be suprised.

Doug

Well, since this thread got resurrected however briefly, thought it might be fun to see Doug's prophetic words from a year and a half ago...let the good times roll!!!

[edstrick]

regarding imaging of Phoenix's entry... Most cameras in orbit at mars are not framing type imaging sensors. The experimental navigation cam on MRO is, and the little engineering cam on Mars Express that imaged Beagle as it separated, but that's about it.

[djellison]

Doesn't stop you doing a nodding-spacecraft manouver to try and grab one with a push broom (i.e. MOC WA for MER etc) - I wonder if CTX could have a go this time around...spacecraft geometry is probably the limiting factor.

Doug

[climber]

Emily confirms that there's a microphone attached with Mardi. I wonder if it can be used once on the ground even if Mardi itself will be of no use?

BTW, the landing day, May 25th 2008 is NOT a Mardi, it's a Dimanche instead

[mcaplinger]

Emily confirms that there's a microphone attached with Mardi. I wonder if it can be used once on the ground even if Mardi itself will be of no use?

There's a picture of the microphone at http://www.msss.com/phoenix/mardi/index.html so I don't think it was a big secret.

MARDI can take perfectly good images of the surface from the height of the landing legs (and I think this might even be an area that the SSI and RAC can't see) and the microphone would work post-landing, but there are no plans to operate MARDI then. Recall that the PHX mission has a limited duration and the other instruments use up most if not all of its lifetime.

[lyford]

MARDI can take perfectly good images of the surface from the height of the landing legs

Would this return any interesting data in terms of the exhaust pattern from the engines? IIRC there was some question about the extent the soil disturbance from landing...

And nice picture!*


*Swiss Army Knife not included.

[elakdawalla]

There's a picture of the microphone at http://www.msss.com/phoenix/mardi/index.html so I don't think it was a big secret.

Nope, it certainly wasn't a secret; in fact most of my information came from the mission press kit, which was posted on Monday.

Cool that MARDI could be used to take a photo of what's under the lander! I'm not sure what value that would have -- but it would be cool.

--Emily

[ElkGroveDan]

There's a picture of the microphone at http://www.msss.com/phoenix/mardi/index.html so I don't think it was a big secret.

No, but the apparent engineering collaboration between MSSS and the Swiss Army is certainly news.

[Gsnorgathon]

...
Cool that MARDI could be used to take a photo of what's under the lander! I'm not sure what value that would have -- but it would be cool.

--Emily

Well, it might make polar-projected images of the landing site a bit more complete - no more black hole right in the middle!

[climber]

Thanks for the answers all, but my question was about the use of the microphone once on the ground. Any infos ?

[mcaplinger]

Thanks for the answers all, but my question was about the use of the microphone once on the ground. Any infos ?

I answered that: it would work but there are no plans to operate MARDI post-landing.

[climber]

I answered that: it would work but there are no plans to operate MARDI post-landing.

Got the point this time Mike! I thought image & sound could have been kind of independant. Thanks

[ustrax]

From today's ESA release, sounds great to me...:

"Operations experts at ESA are currently studying ways to use Mars Express to communicate with the Phoenix lander during its 90-day mission. This could increase the amount of scientific data returned by the lander, as Mars Express would have the capacity to contact and command the lander every two or three days, as well as serve as a relay station for commands and back-up in case of NASA spacecraft failures. Mars Express could also record data if Phoenix goes in safe mode."

[djellison]

About time We should have been doing UHF relay for MER as a 'payback' for borrowing the DSN so much

Doug

[Guest_AlexBlackwell_*]

About time We should have been doing UHF relay for MER as a 'payback' for borrowing the DSN so much

What do you mean by "borrowing"? You mean for free? I didn't realize ESA didn't pay (or barter) for time on the DSN.

[ustrax]

Here's a gift for the weekend for all of you detail-fans...


Looks like the stage is ready...

[nprev]

Freakin' awesome...thanks, Rui!

Man...the level of detail, the simulations, the constant discovery of disconnects & bugs...it is always so impressive to see the dedication and foresight of these people who dare to send robots to explore the planets!!!

[ustrax]

You're welcome nprev...

Did you see the size of the trench?! That baby will REALLY dig!!

[nprev]

Ohh, yeah...more power, more power!!! (grunt, grunt) Hopefully we'll see the glimmer of ice down there...

[centsworth_II]

As I understand, during landing site selection, there was a concern of
seeing too much ice and not enough soil to do mineralogy/chemistry on.
Seeing ice should be a given, but I guess planners have been surprised
before with respect to actual vs. predicted landing site conditions. As
always it will be exciting waitng for those first images of the landing site,
and then the first -- and subsequent -- images from inside the trench.

[ustrax]

Stu, our intrepid reporter got some goodies from Mark Lemmon among which are how things will develop on landing day and what we can expect in the first days regarding images...

[Stu]

I'm always amazed and grateful when these guys take the time to reply to emails, especially when they answer so fully. There are some really interesting news bits in there, made me even more excited about Phoenix...

[nprev]

An absolutely terrific article, Stu; outstanding work!!!

A must-read for Marsophiles--now I know exactly what to expect on Landing Day.

[Stu]

Glad you enjoyed it, I was v v v chuffed that Mark was so forthcoming. I can start planning that weekend now! Thankfully, the Phoenix landing coincides with my weekend off work, so I can camp by my computer and follow the whole thing as it happens... if I've got my time conversions right then Phoenix should land at around 11pm on the 25th my time, the first picture should be released within an hour, taking me to midnight, and any JPL Press Conference, with pictures to show, should be about 5am Sunday morning BST (Bleary-eyed Stu Time )

Good to hear that there'll be a raw images site, and great to hear that they'll - hopefully - be accepting image contributions from people "out here"...

I am getting quite fidgety now to see what Phoenix's surroundings will be after landing, aren't you..?

[ustrax]

I can start planning that weekend now!

Why do these guys always plan this events to hours where one must be dreaming of Mars?...
Dear Stu, your work was truly helpful on letting us all know how things will run within...less than 9 weeks now?...Already?!

[dvandorn]

Why do these guys always plan this events to hours where one must be dreaming of Mars?...

Well -- someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 11pm in the UK is 7pm in New York, 6pm in Minneapolis (my locale), and most important, 4pm in Pasadena. So the guys in charge of EDL get to work it in the middle of the afternoon, their time.

Of course, the first pictures will come down "after hours" for any American location. But not so late as to be interrupting anyone's beauty sleep...

Besides, if you want to land at a given place, with a given sun angle, after a launch on a given day, you don't have many choices in terms of planning. The landing will happen at a specific time, and it's moot whether or not that's a convenient time for the engineers, scientists, or even us fascinated spectators... (Talk to me sometime about the times in my early and mid teens I would sit up all night watching lunar landings and moonwalks. Apollo 14 happened in a dark world in my memory, because most all of the lunar activities happened when it was dark in the central U.S.)

-the other Doug

[ustrax]

Doug, you took my expression too literally...I was referring more to that 5am press conference, which by the way Stu...isn't it on Monday morning, working day already?...

[centsworth_II]

...isn't it on Monday morning, working day already?...

Don't tell me I'm the only one that plans vacation days
from work around significant space exploration events.

Great interview by Stu on your blog, ustrax. I think I'll
let the folks over at the space.com Phoenix thread know about it.

[ustrax]

Don't tell me I'm the only one that plans vacation days
from work around significant space exploration events.

Great interview by Stu on your blog, ustrax. I think I'll
let the folks over at the space.com Phoenix thread know about it.

I think I'll arrive the office sooner than usual...
If it were a month earlier it would be the perfect long weekend...

Yes, Stu made a splendid job! ustrax just loves his crewmates...

And don't forget to participate in the competition!

[jamescanvin]

Don't tell me I'm the only one that plans vacation days
from work around significant space exploration events.

I'm probably going to take the Monday off, I wouldn't get any work done even if I did go in.

[djellison]

It's the Spring Bank Holiday Monday James WIN

Doug

[Stu]

which by the way Stu...isn't it on Monday morning, working day already?...

It would be if it was the previous or following Monday, but because of my bizarre work rotas this Monday falls on my beloved "3 day weekend"... To quote a quaint old English phrase, GET IN THERE!!!

[SpaceListener]

Now it is 45 days away from landing on Mars. As the Phoenix spacecraft will be approaching to Mars at the 120,000 km/h and Mars would be traveling around 96,600 km/h and the diferencial speed when Phoenix enters to Martian's atmosphere at around 23,400 km/h. However, this speed is of horizontal vector with respect to the Mars and Phoenix travel path. I don't know about how fast would be Phoenix be traveling around Mars with respect to Mars's orbital speed.

Well, now, I still haven't found any details about the landing Phoenix path on Mars.

I am supossing that Mars is orbiting in counter-clockwise. On the other hand, Phoenix will be a little behind of Mars until the the Phoenix with its greater speed pick up the Mars on the top of the atmosphere. As the spacecraft was approaching very slow to Mars and hence will be traveling in clockwise around Mars.

The question is: How long will Phoenix be traveling around Mars until its touch down at 68 North and 233 Longitudinal East at 7:36pm Eastern Daylight Time?

Then we are going to be holding the cross fingers for others 17 minutes until knowing its first signal beeps!!!

P.D. Corrected the speed (km/s -> km/h) thanks to Ugordan!

[ugordan]

As the Phoenix spacecraft will be approaching to Mars at the 120,000 km/s and Mars would be traveling around 96,600 km/s and the diferencial speed when Phoenix enters to Martian's atmosphere at around 23,400 km/s.

I believe you're thinking in km/h and not km/s there. At least I hope you are, I don't think there are many spacecraft that can stand that kind of heating and deceleration...

[dmuller]

I believe it's more of a "straight-in-and-down" approach, not much orbiting around Mars. The last trajectory maneuver 22 hours before landing will be at about 230,000 km, 10 times as far away as the Deimos orbit. At that time, the gravitational acceleration to the sun is still greater than that to Mars (barring any errors in my algebra)! At the moment, Phoenix is 9.7 million kms above Mars, but still has 81 million kms to go. According to the Phoenix website, its speed at Entry Interface (first contact with the Martian atmosphere, is 5.7 km/sec

[edstrick]

Cruise, terminal approach, jettison of the cruise stage, and entry will be essentially similar to MER, MSL, Polar Lander and Pathfinder. Details will differ, such as: no relay communications from Polar Lander after it turned away from telemetry-to-earth attitude, etc. But till the hypervelocity meteoric phase of entry is over, it's only details, not the essence of what's happened.

Following parachute deployment, once the bottom of the aeroshell is jettisoned, it's no longer "details" that are different.

[Stu]

Congratulations to Rui for organising this evening's enlightening and informative "Live Q&A" with Peter Smith. Several UMSFers took part, and Peter answered as many questions as he could in the limited time he had available. You can read the Q&A here.

[Stu]

For those people who haven't yet taken a look (shame on you! ) at Rui's excellent Q&A from yesterday with Peter Smith over on the spacEurope blog, here are some snippets... some real gold nuggets of info in here...

The robotic arm is 2.35 m long and powerful enough to scrape into hard
materials. It is true that if the spacecraft footpad perches on a rock or is
otherwise unstable, then the RA has the strength to move the lander. We often
joke that landing on ice in low gravity will allow us to pull ourselves along
the surface using the RA from rock to rock. If the ice is exceptionally hard
we will not dig through it, but instead, will use our RASP to scrape up
samples to be delivered to instruments on our deck.

The MARDI instrument was found to interfere with the guidance system under
rare circumstances forcing the difficult decision to turn it off during the
descent. The microphone does work and may be used later in the mission to hear
the sounds of the RA scraping on the Martian ice.

Discovering Martian life is beyond the goal of this mission. We are looking
first to see if the Martian arctic is habitable: periodic liquid water,
organic material (it could be from meteors), and energy sources available for
power an organism.

On May 25, the lander "feels" the Martian gravity and begins to accelerate
toward the planet. Its speed increases from 6000 to 12,500 mph. Fifteen
minutes before entry, the lander separates from the cruise stage that have
been its life support system for the last 10 months since launch. Seven
minutes before landing, we enter the upper atmosphere and the aeroshell
experiences the heat of friction with the thin atmosphere. We must enter
within a degree of our proper angle or else we can skip off into space or heat
too rapidly and overwhelm our protection systems.

After the aeroshell has slowed us to 900 mph, the parachute is deployed and we
start a leisurely descent to about 1 km above the surface. At a speed of 150
mph, the spacecraft is released from the backshell and drops toward the
surface. Twelve thruster ignite and using radar for guidance bring us to our
landing site at a speed of 5 mph. the specially designed landing legs take up
the shock of landing. Fifteen minutes later the solar arrays deploy and the
camera starts taking images. Our mission begins.

The first week of the mission consists of taking images and preparing for
gathering samples. At the end of the first week we expect to have delivered a
surface sample to our TEGA instrument. The summer is our prime science
opportunity and we expect to meet all our mission goals by September. As you
might expect, the mission will continue longer than this up until solar
conjunction in mid-November. Recovering operations after that in late December
will be very difficult as the Sun is setting in this high arctic region. By
February we expect that carbon dioxide ice is forming a thick layer around the
lander and without heat Phoenix will not survive. No 4 year mission for us.

The landing site has been well imaged from space by the HiRISE camera, a 0.5 m
telescope with resolution of rocks 1 - 1.5 m or greater. We have found a safe
site with few boulders to insure a safe landing. However, it will not be free
of cobbles and smaller pebbles. I am curious to see how these stones have
weathered over time and whether they are aligned with the polygonal
boundaries.

There are few slopes in the neighborhood and the horizon should look extremely
flat, no hills. However, the site is far from boring. We are near a 10 km
crater and should be on the ejecta blanket containing material brought to the
surface from depth. We are also on the slope of a large volcano, Alba Patera
and may encounter ash blown from the interior. Finally, the site is a shallow
valley and has undergone erosion which may leave signatures.

We land just before summer solstice and the first few months of the mission
have plenty of sunlight altho our power generation depends on the tilt of the
lander which we cannot control. Our science team has many arguments about how
ice might react when the overburden of soil is removed. We will try to force
some of the ice to melt by putting it in the warmest place we can find--the
lander deck, then imaging it as solar heating tries to melt it. The question
is will it sublimate before melting?

We are flying an atomic force microscope built in Switzerland by Urs Staufer
for the first time ever. This is a difficult instrument to fly because it is
sensitive to vibration even the tiny vibes caused by temperature change and
wind. It has worked well in the lab and during environmental tests giving a
resolution of an amazing 100 nm per pixel.

Our TEGA instrument which has 8 ovens is used to determine the minerals in the
soil and to drive off vapors which are measured in a mass spectrometer. The
ovens can only be used once so we must allocate them intelligently. Our basic
goal is a surface measurement, an ice sample, and a sample half way between.
Then will try to verify that what we have seen is real if the signal are near
the noise level.

Our thruster use hydrazine as fuel, its formula is N2H4 and our ultra-pure
mixture has no detectable organics. The combustion products are ammonia and
water. The more difficult question is what about the 1% that doesn't combust,
it is highly reactive and may alter the chemistry of the surface layers that
it contacts. We are vigilant and will try to avoid contaminated areas.

Another major part of our science is the study of polar climate. Not only is
Phoenix a traditional weather station, but we use LIDAR, built by our Canadian
partners, to measure cloud properties and heights. The camera has special
lenses for determining dust opacity and we do look for atmospheric phenomena
like dust devils and solar haloes.

The end of the mission has not been carefully studied and there are no
guarantees after we complete our primary mission. As much as anything, the
NASA budget limits our longevity. We will do everything in our power to last
until the last rays of sunlight energize the spacecraft.

All good things come to an end and we will leave important questions for
future mission to unravel--Phoenix is a stepping stone on the path to
discovering the Truth about Mars.

Good bye all and thank you for your interest!

[AndyG]

The answers and info were good, Stu - but:

"The microphone does work and may be used later in the mission to hear
the sounds of the RA scraping on the Martian ice."

"May"? I can't think of anything more wonderful, both in terms of your sort of outreach work and for the sheer coolness factor, of sounds from Mars.

Andy

[nprev]

Quick question, if anybody knows: Does Phoenix have an inertial measurement unit (IMU) on the spacecraft bus itself, or is this or an analogous device installed on the EDL hardware?

Sneaky idea here: IF there's an IMU on Phoenix itself (there has to be some sort of three-axis rate sensor suite for terminal descent, anyhow; FOGs or something?), and IF it could be spun up again post-landing within the power budget, and IF the meteorology data is of sufficient resolution, THEN we have a poor man's seismometer. The IMU/rate sensor suite wouldn't really need to align to any particular direction or orientation as long as the stable platform can be aligned at all with some axial offset along all three; we could measure three-axis acceleration vectors regardless & subtract the angular effects from 0.38g at any given orientation. The met data would be used to distinguish between wind effects vs. actual shakes & quakes.

Okay, ready to hear that I've reinvented the wheel yet again, but made it square this time...

[nprev]

On another topic, our own ustrax has scored yet another journalistic coup on spacEurope: some words from the director of JPL on Phoenix!

[Stu]

Great simulated view pic up on the Phoenix blog's latest entry...

[ustrax]

And another one in Mark Lemmon's latest blog entry at Phoenix's website...

Did I ever mention that Lemmon is one of the jury's of spacEurope's competition that has it deadline in 12 DAYS?...I did?

[Phil Stooke]

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2008/may/H...x_Advisory.html

Phil

[akuo]

Finally. The landing is under three weeks away, and there is surprisingly little information about Phoenix. With MER we had documentaries and interviews on NASA-TV well before the actual landing. Is everything going so well that there is nothing to tell?

[imipak]

The landing is under three weeks away, and there is surprisingly little information about Phoenix.

Possibly something to do with it being a Scout class mission?

[Stu]

You want news? Here's news...! Emily has GREAT news about something Phoenix might see after landing...

[Juramike]

...something Phoenix might see after landing[/url]...

First Phoenix transmission: "I don't think we're in Kansas anymore..."

[nprev]

I dunno, Mike; this part of Mars is looking a lot like Kansas! Coolcoolcool....

[ustrax]

Nice...
Things are getting pretty exciting...
almost only two weeks, man! Time flies!

EDITED: Just to remind you guys that today, May 8, is Live Q'n'A day at spacEurope with the presence of Michel Denis and Peter Schmitz, starting at 11AM UTC. See you there!

[Stu]

Congratulations to Rui for another outstanding Q&A over on his spacEurope blog. Some fascinating information came out of today's session, which can be read here...

[ustrax]

Thanks man!
That was a great two-hours hour...my butt is square...

I was really surprised by the distances...

"Q: where will MEx "be" located witnessing Phoenix's arrival

A: MEX will acquire the PHX signal 3 minutes after the Cruise stage separation (distance between the 2 spacecraft 4000 km), and will keep tracking until 3 minutes after landing (if permitted by the very low elevation seen from the Lander - below 2 degrees after landing, hopefully there is no big rock in the way). At closest approach during tracking, MEX is at about 350 km, at landing time 800 km, and at horizon (absolute transmission limit) already at 2000 km."

350kms?! that will raise MEx's hairs...

And I WANT to see that fireball images as soon as possible!

[nprev]

That was fun, and very interesting. Congratulations & thanks, Rui!

Wish I could've stayed to the end, but the 110 freeway is highly unkind to those who are tardy & must be at work on time...

[ustrax]

Wish I could've stayed to the end, but the 110 freeway is highly unkind to those who are tardy & must be at work on time...

Be sure you get an hour on Thursday...yes...we are doing it again when we will be only 10 days from Mars (get ready Stu!)...
Brave Barry Goldstein...brave!

Doug...I've made the trumpet sound loud...I am waiting for those questions!

[nprev]

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy... COOL! I got at least one decent question for him!

[ustrax]

Your questions are always decent man...
Hope the schedule fits you this time, I'll be working by then...once more...
The boss will work...once more...as the pirate's parrot...

[vmcgregor]

Don't know if you've noticed, but we posted the Phoenix landing press kit. You can find it here as the main item on this page (www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix . If it's not the top item anymore, look for it on the left side of the screen).

Also, TCM 4 has been cancelled. That story is also posted on the same page. For now, it looks like we're right on target!

[djellison]

Thank's for the heads-up Veronica

"The NASA TV Media Channel will carry a feed with no commentary
or interviews, beginning at 3 p.m. PDT (6 p.m. EDT). The NASA TV Public Channel will
carry a feed with some commentary and interviews, beginning at 3:30 p.m. PDT (6:30 p.m.
EDT). Both feeds will continue through 5 p.m. or later PDT (8 p.m. or later EDT)."

That's especially good news !!

Doug

[akuo]

Thanks for the information. I was looking forward to the press kit.

[Stu]

For anyone putting together Outreach material for a Phoenix-based presentation, there's a gorgeous pic of Mars shining in the sky as today's Astronomy Picture of the Day...

[climber]

Don't know if you've noticed, but we posted the Phoenix landing press kit. You can find it here as the main item on this page (www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/phoenix . If it's not the top item anymore, look for it on the left side of the screen).

Also, TCM 4 has been cancelled. That story is also posted on the same page. For now, it looks like we're right on target!

The file seams somehow corrupted : here is another location for the file :http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/main/index.html

[climber]

BTW, Ustrax, there's a nice picture on the presskit of what Phoenix will see when she'll have landed. Do they compete ?

[centsworth_II]

...there's a nice picture on the presskit of what Phoenix will see when she'll have landed.

That hilly terrain doesn't look like a very realistic representation of what is expected.

[climber]

That hilly terrain doesn't look like a very realistic representation of what is expected.

I agree but... who would had bet a quater on Oppy's first view?

[remcook]

Maybe if we had HiRise before oppy arrived...

[ustrax]

BTW, Ustrax, there's a nice picture on the presskit of what Phoenix will see when she'll have landed. Do they compete ?

Not that I'm aware of...but you have 5 days to do so...

[akuo]

Today's press conference about Phoenix is on again on NASA-TV at the moment (20:00 UTC). Even the smaller Mars landers seem to attract a lot of interest, there were plenty of questions from the media.

[dvandorn]

Hey -- we get to see tiny little peces of Mars under an atomic force microscope on this flight. That's enough to get most any space geek out there excited!

-the other Doug

[Stu]

Fascinating briefing, I heard it the first time, and was very impressed by the honesty and enthusiasm of the panel members, but it brought home to me that this is definitely going to be a harder mission to "sell" and promote Outreach-wise than the MERs. I'm beginning to realise it might be quite a challenge (but that's ok! ). The landing site - from what they've said at today's briefing - will be pretty flat and featureless (=SAFE), with maybe just a bare handful of rocks on view, so there'll be no jaw-dropping pictures to compete with the amazing MER panoramas we've all enjoyed seeing and sharing; the focus is on hard science with this mission, lots of graphs and charts and data, and the results will take a lot of careful explaining. I'm sure the JPL guys and gals will be working hard to create and make available images and pictures that will translate this hard science into information that can be shared with and understood by people who haven't got a good knowledge of this kind of thing.

[climber]

Doug, are we going to have a "arm" one when Phoenix will be safely on the ground ?

[edstrick]

"...so there'll be no jaw-dropping pictures..."

We can always hope for a martian Reindeer to wander past.... or just a lemming or two.

Oh.. that's not a lemming, that's a reporter....

Oh... paris hilton just drove past... that's why the lemmings all left.

[Stu]

I know we're all going to be sat here on Landing Day (or Landing Night for us Europeans!) with browser windows open on UMSF and NASA TV, but there's another site you might like to consider keeping an eye on: there's now a Phoenix Twitter page, too. For those unfamiliar with Twitter, it's like a mini-blog, with entries limited to just a few sentences at a time, that is great for sharing snippets of info very quickly. The Phoenix Twitter page already has more than 420 "followers", and although there are only a few posts there so far I know that as landing approaches updates will get more frequent, and on Landing Day/Night itself I think the entries will get quite entertaining and useful.

Anyway, take a look, it will be a fun site to keep an eye on, I'm sure.

Phoenix Twitter page

[Guest_Sunspot_*]

I think i'm going to be too nervous to watch the landing.

[Stu]

Like you'll be able to stop yourself...!

[ElkGroveDan]

This would be the appropriate time to point out how I will be watching. Elsewhere I lamented the loss of my high speed internet connection since my cable TV company does not provide service to my new home a mere 10 miles away. So out of necessity I now have satellite TV service. I was browsing all my new channels last night and lo and behold there on channel 376 is NASA TV (which the old company used to carry only sporadically). So I'll be taking off early from work that day and watching on my new Sony flat screen.

[climber]

This would be the appropriate time to point out how I will be watching...So I'll be taking off early from work that day and watching on my new Sony flat screen.

Lucky man! I don't even know how I will be watching!
It'll be 1.36 am here in France when the parachutte will open up! Add a few more minutes for landing, another half an hour for the dust to set down. Then solar panels will unfold, meteo mast and the Pancam one will follow, a picture will be taken and we'll have to wait another 2 hours (if we're lucky) to get it on the ground. It'll be 4 am at best here... and I've got a flight at 7 am in Toulouse one hour away from home.
Anybody want to replace me to go to Milano this very day?

PS : Dan, now that you've moved to your Castle with sattelite TV, brand new flat screen, dark skies,... will you still mind chatting with us, poor UNMSF'ers ?

[ElkGroveDan]

It'll be 4 am at best here... and I've got a flight at 7 am in Toulouse one hour away from home.

You can change your flight. Move it up a day and fly to Sacramento and you can watch with me and my family. Best of all, I have a cat named Toulouse.

[vmcgregor]

Lucky man! I don't even know how I will be watching!
It'll be 1.36 am here in France when the parachutte will open up! Add a few more minutes for landing, another half an hour for the dust to set down. Then solar panels will unfold, meteo mast and the Pancam one will follow, a picture will be taken and we'll have to wait another 2 hours (if we're lucky) to get it on the ground. It'll be 4 am at best here... and I've got a flight at 7 am in Toulouse one hour away from home.

Climber,
Then you should definitely sign up on Twitter to receive updates!. You can have the updates sent to your cell phone. They'll be short and sweet (two sentences), but at least you'll be able to follow along and know what's happening. One reason we're doing Twitter is the landing occurs on a holiday weekend in the US, and we didn't think people would have NASA TV (or the news) on during their picnics and BBQs
Plus, it's just a cool way to reach people who otherwise wouldn't be following the mission.

[climber]

You can change your flight. Move it up a day and fly to Sacramento and you can watch with me and my family. Best of all, I have a cat named Toulouse.

Thanks for the invitation !
Nevertheless, I'd better go with Veronica's advise. Thanks, Veronica, I'll just do it.

PS : Dan, I'll name my next cat Sacramento (unless your Castle got a name)

[volcanopele]

Not sure how I'll be watching. It is a good possibility that there will be a landing event here at the lab since the mission is being run from here (okay, not HERE, another building, well, you know what I mean ). I don't know, maybe the HiRISE folks can sneak me into the Phoenix building

[nprev]

VP, if you get in, we want pics (if they allow that)!!!