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Home, Sweet Home, Dream becomes Reality
abalone
post Feb 8 2006, 07:58 AM
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Wow!!
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djellison
post Feb 8 2006, 08:17 AM
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QUOTE (Shaka @ Feb 7 2006, 11:29 PM)
Rats, no Rat!  Where shall we make the First Abrasion ?
Other suggestions?
*


The Rat's ability to grind has been lost for months - it's worn out. They can brush, but not grind.

Doug
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Tesheiner
post Feb 8 2006, 09:22 AM
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A combination of two panoramas.
Oppy at Home Plate on top, and Spirit at Burns Cliff at ... no, wait a minute! Oppy at Burns Cliff at the bottom and Spirit at... wrong again! Man, they are so similar.

Well, judge by yourself.


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Bob Shaw
post Feb 8 2006, 09:32 AM
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QUOTE (abalone @ Feb 8 2006, 08:58 AM)
Wow!!
*


Indeedy!

Firstly, look beyond the immediate eye-candy - HP *is* a bowl, we're looking across the top surface in the background and it clearly has a 'crater' shape (as in bowl, no more).

Secondly, I agree that the form of the exposed surfaces is, as previously said, all about the tricks of aeolian erosion - you get some very strange shapes, and they don't need to mean much except the way the winds blow.

Thirdly, the fine stratification has to mean persistent episodes of "something". Dykes don't do that, ashfall seems less likely to me now, water more so, but...
...mud pseudo-vulcanism?

And finally: I know it can't be, but... ...lithographic slate? Anybody seen any Archeopteryx? Answers, on a postcard please, to Mr R Hoaxland...

Bob Shaw


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Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
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abalone
post Feb 8 2006, 10:28 AM
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Hazcam view
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Bill Harris
post Feb 8 2006, 11:25 AM
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QUOTE
Oppy at Home Plate on top, and Spirit at Burns Cliff at ... no, wait a minute! Oppy at Burns Cliff at the bottom and Spirit at... wrong again! Man, they are so similar.


I dunno where we are! However, it does suggest the effects of similar aeolian erosion on rocks of similar mechanical properties.

Google "loess". There is a wealth of information on it and it may apply here *only in the context of a windblown deposit*.

--Bill


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djellison
post Feb 8 2006, 11:30 AM
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It does strongly remind me of Burns Cliff - the middle parts that are suggested as being depositied by wind, and then being altered by water. Who knows. Why is it here? What IS Home Plate, what's that stuff made of, ahhhhh---it's all too much smile.gif

Big MI sequence tosol it seems, Spirits IDD will get a work out today.

CODE
Sol Seq.Ver  ETH ESF EDN EFF ERP Tot  Description
--- -------- --- --- --- --- --- ---- -----------
747 p1110.03 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_haz_idd_mi_doc_1024x1024x1bpp_pri_56
747 p1131.05 2   0   2   0   0   4    front_haz_idd_mb_doc_512x512x1_bpp_high
747 p1206.05 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_hazcam_half_bpp_pri_20
747 p1214.05 2   0   0   2   0   4    front_hazcam_ultimate_4_bpp
747 p1244.00 2   2   0   0   0   4    front_hazcam_wheel_sub_256x256_4_bpp_pri_16
747 p1344.00 3   3   0   0   0   6    rear_hazcam_sub_LRREYES_256x256_4bpp_pri23
747 p2102.13 3   0   3   0   1   7    pancam_isc_voc_cal_L267
747 p2104.10 3   0   3   0   1   7    pancam_mtes_cal_target_L267
747 p2578.15 6   0   0   6   2   14   pancam_mackey_L257R247
747 p2600.07 2   2   0   0   2   6    pancam_tau
747 p2600.07 2   2   0   0   2   6    pancam_tau
747 p2631.01 11  0   0   0   2   13   pancam_sky_spot_L234567R34567
747 p2818.07 6   6   0   0   2   14   pancam_cal_target_L257R247

9x
747 p2936.02 1   0   0   1   0   2    mi_cover_open_minloss2_LUT3_pri44

20x
747 p2956.03 1   0   0   1   0   2    mi_cover_open_minloss2_LUT3_pri59

14x
747 p2977.02 1   0   0   1   0   2    mi_cover_open_minloss3_LUT3_medium


43 Mi images - suggestive of perhaps 12 pointing locations? a 4 x 3 or 6 x 2 mosaic?

Doug
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dvandorn
post Feb 8 2006, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE (abalone @ Feb 8 2006, 01:58 AM)
Wow!!
*

You know, I was listening to talk radio the other day -- a rabbi was the guest, talking about spirituality in the 21st century. He spoke of someone asking him what all those Hebrew words really meant in the prayers, and he told the questioner, "Most all of those words, when it comes down to it, translate out to simply saying, 'Wow!'"

In this jaded world, it's important for us to remember that it is *especially* in these "wow" moments that we are in touch with our spirituality.

As y'all know, I'm not particularly a proponent of ID -- but seeing something as wonderfully, richly complex as the Home Plate feature, in all its finely layered glory, fills me with wonder at what we can find in God's universe. And so, I say the only prayer that means anything to me.

WOW!

-the other Doug


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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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RNeuhaus
post Feb 8 2006, 04:01 PM
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QUOTE (Tesheiner @ Feb 8 2006, 04:22 AM)
A combination of two panoramas.
Oppy at Home Plate on top, and Spirit at Burns Cliff at ... no, wait a minute! Oppy at Burns Cliff at the bottom and Spirit at... wrong again! Man, they are so similar.

Well, judge by yourself.


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*

Interesting Tesheiner's picture post. It is a good for comparing purposes. Burn Cliff is more clean, smooth surface and Home Plate is somewhat broken, nothing smooth surface, dirtier with more sand depositions. The broken and fallen stones has turned a darker color than the ones on the surface.

That is puzzgling about these differences.

Rodolfo
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dvandorn
post Feb 8 2006, 04:29 PM
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There are obviously two different lithologies going on here, even though both are finely layered. One is what appears to be a light-toned sandstone, which is rather hard rock. It's more erosion-resistant than the soils and rock beds within which the entire Home Plate formation is located -- as evidenced by the fact that the HP formation sticks out, far less eroded, from the surrounding soils.

The other is a much darker layered rock, that has a Salvador Dali-esque look to it -- it has slumped and "melted" over the aeons, even though it preserves its finely layered structure.

If the light and dark layered rocks share the same lithology, I'll be incredibly surprised -- and I'll have some very basic questions as to how their appearance can be so much different.

I keep thinking in terms of artesian springs. I've seen a number of them on Earth, and especially those which vent volcanically heated water tend to bear water that's absolutely saturated with minerals. The "throw" distance from the source of the spring makes an obvious difference in the lithologies of the rock that's deposited by the flowing spring water.

Until we get some definite info on the lithology here, I'm still thinking that this was an impact crater that developed a hot spring vent (possibly as a result of the impact cracking a route for pressurized water between a somewhat deep aquifer and the surface). The hot spring could have turned on and off cyclically, depending on the level of subsurface volcanic heating, laying down layer after layer of minerals collected by the water in its journey from the aquifer up to the surface.

Let's wait and see how water-altered these rocks are before we trap ourselves in any corners, though, eh?

-the other Doug


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SteveM
post Feb 8 2006, 05:16 PM
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QUOTE (dvandorn @ Feb 8 2006, 04:29 PM)
There are obviously two different lithologies going on here, even though both are finely layered.  One is what appears to be a light-toned sandstone, which is rather hard rock.  It's more erosion-resistant than the soils and rock beds within which the entire Home Plate formation is located -- as evidenced by the fact that the HP formation sticks out, far less eroded, from the surrounding soils.

The other is a much darker layered rock, that has a Salvador Dali-esque look to it -- it has slumped and "melted" over the aeons, even though it preserves its finely layered structure.

If the light and dark layered rocks share the same lithology, I'll be incredibly surprised -- and I'll have some very basic questions as to how their appearance can be so much different.

...

Let's wait and see how water-altered these rocks are before we trap ourselves in any corners, though, eh?

-the other Doug
*


Thanks for pointing out the two different colors of rocks here. It may be significant that most of the darker rocks have broken loose from their source and apparently tumbled down the slope. In a few cases they seem to have lighter areas which may be the point where the rock fractured, or which may be an artifact of illumination on the edge.

For what its worth, I've identified a few possible sources for some of the fragments in Tesheiner's recent panorama. (I'm not certain the attachment worked, I'm at the bottom of the learning curve now).

It will clearly be a problem for the geologists to match the layers in these fragments to those in their sources -- sort of like the problem of matching tree-ring layers from different samples.

Steve

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Chmee
post Feb 8 2006, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (dvandorn @ Feb 8 2006, 12:29 PM)
I keep thinking in terms of artesian springs.  I've seen a number of them on Earth, and especially those which vent volcanically heated water tend to bear water that's absolutely saturated with minerals.  The "throw" distance from the source of the spring makes an obvious difference in the lithologies of the rock that's deposited by the flowing spring water.

-the other Doug
*



I was thinking of something similar, but more of a geyser, where high pressure water (possibly from an aquifier) is being forced to the surface. The water is carrying minerals, sand, mud, etc that would add a layer each time it erupted and would build up to the layers we see now.

Also, this would explain the 'rind' on Pitchers Mound. Perhaps it was a pre-existing hill, and the geyser-spray coated it with several layers on top.
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Bill Harris
post Feb 8 2006, 05:40 PM
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And the "dark layered rock", may be the light-toned layered rock with a dark weathered surface; I seem to recall seeing a break with a light interior. I've seen a "horticolor" image that suggests that the dark-toned rocks are a "dove gray" in color with no trace of the warmish ochre tone. We'll see when some L24567's come in. And there is the darker-toned somewhat granular rock below the finely layered unit.

Now that we have the Handlens and Scratchplate deployed we'll know more soon.

QUOTE
...I'm still thinking that this was an impact crater that developed a hot spring vent (possibly as a result of the impact cracking a route for pressurized water between a somewhat deep aquifer and the surface).


Deja VuVu: wasn't this somewhat similar to the (discarded) speculation about the Ultreya Abyss? Things go 'round and 'round. It's possible, these layered units are unusual.

--Bill


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Holder of the Tw...
post Feb 8 2006, 06:05 PM
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Terrific pictures, abalone! Thanks.

QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 8 2006, 02:17 AM)
The Rat's ability to grind has been lost for months - it's worn out. They can brush, but not grind.

Doug
*


Some of those long rocky protrusions look delicate enough and small enough,
I'm wondering if Spirit can't somehow just break a couple off to get at the fresh rock underneath?
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djellison
post Feb 8 2006, 06:54 PM
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I don't think it needs to - I think this rock is very wind-scoured, and as a result we're already looking at the 'inside' of it - a brushing would do a good job and that's about it

Doug
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