IPB
X   Site Message
(Message will auto close in 2 seconds)

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Lunar Exploration: New Manned/unmanned Concept, allows for both
Guest_Richard Trigaux_*
post Feb 12 2006, 08:12 PM
Post #1





Guests






There was hot debates about wether Moon exploration is to be achieved with manned crews or with unmanned robots. I think the mixed concept exposed here can use both, or be successful even with only one if the other fails.

First, only activities directly linked to lunar ground are useful on this ground: any other would require much less energy in free space. And things like telescopes are better in free space than fixed to a dusty and vibrating ground.

At first, a fixed crewed base on the Moon is useless: once the local geology explored, appears the need to move. (the only exception would be a large drilling project, which would require a fixed crewed base. But we are still far of this. And I don't speak of mining, a pure ideological view if we consider the cost of bringing back materials on Earth)

So we need to move. In order to be able to visit a significant number of targets.

A rover.

A rover like Oppy and Spirit. But much larger, several tons like the LEM, see 20 or 30 tons.

There was on another thread on this forum (I don't remember where) an extensive discution about an automatic remote controlled Moon rover, its requirements and inconveniences. Large solar panels, which need to be cleaned. Full lab for isotope, cristallography and chemical analysis. Even gas analysis (rocks often contain gas bubbles very interesting to study). Such a lab could be miniaturized, but it would remain very complicated to operate and maintain, some said it would be even impossible to made it remote-controled and reliable enough.

Considering all this, I though of a mixed mission concept which would be interesting:
-a large automated rover
-several crewed missions using a smaller LEM to service it.


In remote control, the rover would be able to
-rove on large distances on the Moon (some even suggested to "race the sun" so that to alway have solar energy)
-take samples and make simple analysis.


Manned visits could:
-come on spots of special interest.
-take samples and manipulate them for more complete analysis.
-maintain the rover, bring new instruments or replace damaged parts.
-take back to Earth choosen samples of special interest for most complete analysis.


Concretely, the manned encounters could work that way:
-the manned landing module lands on a spot of interest, while the rover comes along to rendez-vous.
-the rover has a kind or skip or lorry, so that it can haul and carry the manned return stage. The crew can stay into this return stage, or have a larger cabin into the rover. From here they can perform EVA on the ground or for maintaining the rover.
-in this configuration, the rover can stay on the spot or proceed to other places, carying the return stage and the crew.
-when the human presence is no longer required, of if there is an accident, the return stage is fired and it goes directly to Earth (this is a bit more difficut than with the former LEMs, which had only to come back in lunar orbit).


One of the major advantage is that the manned visits don't need to bring each time an heavy luggage of rover, power resources and instruments: once landed, the rover can remain available for many missions.


So the whole thing works like the Hubble space telescope, most of the time in remote control, but with manned service missions. It just has more manned missions, and not just for maintainance. But the number of manned visits can be tailored according to needs and to budgets, from many to zero. Even in the later case the rover still has its interest.


The concept is even politics-friendly, allowing "ideological" manned presence to be really useful, and opposed conceptions (manned/unmanned) to collaborate rather than excluding each other. We can even imagine that he rover (US made, I guess...) could receive manned missions of Europe, Russia or other forms of collaborations.


It would not be interesting to rebuilt a series of the old Saturn V rockets, but I think it would not be difficult to rebuilt a series of a modernized version, using already existing components such as shuttle boosters, reservoirs or engines, together with modern electronics.

A nightmarish automation problem would be a complex automatized sample analysis lab able to stand the comparizon with a real Earth lab. Concretelly the belly of the rover would be organized around a handling "charriot" moving on rails, and able to carry samples from any instrument to any other (analysers, saws, containers...) with the proper orientation and force. The instruments would be mounted on racks, and there would be enough space for an astronaut to operate safely between the instruments, and eventually easily replace any of them, including the charriot. (rails being passive, could be considered reliable). The only real (but really bad) problem in there would be dust.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- Richard Trigaux   Lunar Exploration: New Manned/unmanned Concept   Feb 12 2006, 08:12 PM
- - djellison   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Feb 12 2006, 08...   Feb 12 2006, 08:20 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   The flaw with Richard's proposal is that -- th...   Feb 12 2006, 11:56 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   A manned Mars flight to Mars orbit only is both ch...   Feb 13 2006, 12:19 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 13 2006, 12:56 A...   Feb 13 2006, 08:40 AM
- - Phil Stooke   What are you doing up at this time of night, Bob? ...   Feb 13 2006, 12:27 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   Phil: I'm allowed up late once a month, for t...   Feb 13 2006, 12:48 AM
- - dvandorn   Bob, I agree entirely with *anything* that will ki...   Feb 13 2006, 01:45 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Well, yes, if we're going to insist on sending...   Feb 13 2006, 09:34 AM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 13 2006, 03:34 A...   Feb 13 2006, 01:19 PM
||- - ljk4-1   What's a space agency for? --- The newly-rele...   Feb 13 2006, 05:07 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 13 2006, 10:34 A...   Feb 13 2006, 06:33 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Thank you for your arguments exchanges, Bruce and ...   Feb 13 2006, 06:52 PM
- - dvandorn   I like your overall concept, Richard, and I think ...   Feb 13 2006, 11:04 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Feb 13 2006, 01:19 PM) ...   Feb 13 2006, 11:14 PM
|- - dvandorn   Very, very good reply, Bruce. Thank you -- this i...   Feb 14 2006, 12:11 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   "Yes, a lot of deep-sea investigation is bein...   Feb 14 2006, 02:51 AM
|- - David   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 14 2006, 02:51 A...   Feb 14 2006, 02:20 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 14 2006, 02:51 A...   Feb 14 2006, 02:34 PM
|- - tedstryk   There are really three facets to the manned vs. un...   Feb 14 2006, 04:01 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 14 2006, 03:34 PM)...   Feb 14 2006, 06:24 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Feb 14 2006, 06...   Feb 14 2006, 06:40 PM
- - dvandorn   I dunno about the lack of sending professional geo...   Feb 14 2006, 04:08 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   There was tremendous progress recently in the doma...   Feb 14 2006, 06:49 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Feb 14 2006, 06...   Feb 15 2006, 05:12 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 15 2006, 05:12 A...   Feb 15 2006, 08:27 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   OK. As for a fast-moving unmanned lunar rover (of...   Feb 15 2006, 08:50 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 15 2006, 09:50 A...   Feb 15 2006, 09:36 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 15 2006, 08:50 A...   Feb 15 2006, 12:59 PM
- - djellison   You see Bruce - not that hard. Here, have a cooki...   Feb 15 2006, 09:57 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   The stereo visual feature-recognition system seems...   Feb 15 2006, 01:58 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 15 2006, 02:58 P...   Feb 15 2006, 11:00 PM
- - dvandorn   The biggest pitfall for an automated fast-speed (3...   Feb 16 2006, 04:06 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Feb 16 2006, 05:06 AM) ...   Feb 16 2006, 07:08 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Feb 16 2006, 07...   Feb 16 2006, 08:51 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Look. Even on Earth, recreational 4WD operators a...   Feb 16 2006, 08:37 AM


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 17th December 2024 - 03:49 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.