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The Last 10 Days In The Space Shuttle's Bunker?, Atlantis apparently to be scrapped in 2008
Guest_BruceMoomaw_*
post Feb 21 2006, 03:05 AM
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http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20060...lantis_spa.html :

"Under orders to retire the shuttle fleet by 2010, NASA plans to cancel shuttle Atlantis' next scheduled overhaul and mothball the ship in 2008.

"Rather than becoming a museum piece, however, Atlantis will serve as a spare parts donor for sister ships Discovery and Endeavour to complete assembly of the International Space Station.

" 'People are already calling us and asking us can they display one of our orbiters in their museum after we're done. I'm not giving anybody anything until we're all agreed the station is complete and the shuttles' job is done,' shuttle program manager Wayne Hale told Kennedy Space Center employees during a televised address on Friday.

" 'We're going to keep (Atlantis) in as near flight-ready condition as we can without putting it through a (modification and overhaul) so we can use those parts,' Hale said.
____________________

Jeffrey Bell has recently finished a piece for "SpaceDaily" proclaiming that the wholesale cancellation of other NASA projects in the FY 2007 budget to keep Shuttle and ISS going is actually just part of Michael Griffin's Machiavellian strategy to get both of the cancelled, by making it clear that they can be saved now only at the cost of a swarm of other projects (including Bush's lunar program) which are now more popular. Certainly that is the overwhelming message being conveyed, whether Griffin planned it that way or not -- I haven't seen a single newspaper editorial yet that favors retaining Shuttle at this point.

(Bell also claims to see other, subtler evidence of this strategy in Griffin's moves over the last few weeks -- and also signs that he definitely plans to throw ISS from the train as well, by just giving it to the Russians half-finished in a few years and paying off the ESA and Japan for their unlaunched space lab modules. These include the fact that he's cancelled work on the unmanned cargo variant of the Crew Exploration Vehicle that will be necessary to take up replacement Control Moment Gyros to the ISS after the Shuttle is no longer available.)
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Guest_Richard Trigaux_*
post Feb 21 2006, 05:34 PM
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When I think back twenty years ago, when the shuttle program was starting, all the hope we invested in it: cheap, easy, safe access to space, going in orbit as easily as we go in holidays, send up there tourists, scientists, artists, space stations, large science facilities, factories... and where we are now...
NASA is not the culprit: all the other shuttle programs were canceled, and space remains expensive, dangerous and difficult. There will perhaps not be a PRACTICAL space station and flight to Mars before several decades, and, unless something really new is discovered, there will never be easy cheap access to space.

In facts the idea of the space shuttle came not from scientists and not from engineers, it came from science fiction. And we all tried to realize a scifi dream. Sometimes it is a good idea. Sometimes not. Let us search for something else for an easy access to space. Starting with what we know to do. Large aircraft or huge baloon at high altitude, perhaps? Would a very large aircraft such an A380 be able to hauld a rocket stage at high altitude? Certainly yes, but how large? For small satellites perhaps.
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Bob Shaw
post Feb 21 2006, 10:32 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Feb 21 2006, 05:34 PM) *
In facts the idea of the space shuttle came not from scientists and not from engineers, it came from science fiction.


Richard:

No, I don't really think so!

The 'spaceplane' concept came largely from German engineer Dr. Eugen Sänger who researched many rocketry technologies, such as regeneratively cooled liquid-fueled engines. After WWII, Bell Aircraft Corporation undertook the BOMI and ROBO studies of round the world spaceplanes, which appeared to offer many advantages of artillery-derived rockets. From these seeds came a whole range of spaceplane projects, and science fiction merely reiterated the concepts - remember that Arthur C Clarke was active in the BIS before he wrote fiction!

http://www.luft46.com/misc/sanger.html

Bob Shaw


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Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
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dilo
post Feb 22 2006, 08:46 AM
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QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Feb 21 2006, 11:32 PM) *
The 'spaceplane' concept came largely from German engineer Dr. Eugen Sänger who researched many rocketry technologies, such as regeneratively cooled liquid-fueled engines.

Perhaps slightly OT, I knew the Sanger project and I remember also a modern spaceplane project called "Sanger", in honor of this projectist. In the image I saw, it was a beautiful, very aveniristic model but I cannot find any info on that. Someone can help?


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Posts in this topic
- BruceMoomaw   The Last 10 Days In The Space Shuttle's Bunker?   Feb 21 2006, 03:05 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 21 2006, 04:05 A...   Feb 21 2006, 05:49 AM
- - djellison   One of Maggie Thatchers few highlights - not invol...   Feb 21 2006, 08:17 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   "I still maintain that the US HAS to complete...   Feb 21 2006, 09:24 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 21 2006, 09:24 A...   Feb 21 2006, 09:47 AM
- - edstrick   One big lesson of the post-Columbia "test...   Feb 21 2006, 11:15 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   Without entering into the "gordian-knot mess...   Feb 21 2006, 03:15 PM
- - PhilCo126   As we already mentioned in the 2nd BIS book on the...   Feb 21 2006, 03:58 PM
|- - MahFL   Its going to take much much longer than anyone thi...   Feb 21 2006, 05:23 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   When I think back twenty years ago, when the shutt...   Feb 21 2006, 05:34 PM
|- - dilo   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Feb 21 2006, 06...   Feb 21 2006, 09:33 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Feb 21 2006, 05...   Feb 21 2006, 10:32 PM
|- - dilo   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Feb 21 2006, 11:32 PM) ...   Feb 22 2006, 08:46 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (dilo @ Feb 22 2006, 08:46 AM) Perh...   Feb 22 2006, 10:55 PM
|- - dilo   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Feb 22 2006, 11:55 PM) ...   Feb 23 2006, 07:12 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   While I will agree that it's insane (even give...   Feb 22 2006, 01:19 AM
- - gpurcell   Look, the simplest explanation for the official an...   Feb 22 2006, 07:01 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (gpurcell @ Feb 22 2006, 08:01 AM) ...   Feb 22 2006, 07:47 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Feb 22 2006, 12...   Feb 23 2006, 05:44 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Feb 23 2006, 12:44...   Feb 23 2006, 05:53 PM
- - edstrick   We have to remember that the IDEA of a space shutt...   Feb 22 2006, 08:57 AM
- - PhilCo126   After 25 years of Space Transportation System (STS...   Feb 22 2006, 09:45 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   An excellent case can be made that the basic conce...   Feb 22 2006, 11:21 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 22 2006, 03:21 A...   Feb 22 2006, 04:03 PM
- - dvandorn   And you can add to Truax's comments the commen...   Feb 22 2006, 03:43 PM
- - Bill Harris   It will be an endless debate of whether or not the...   Feb 22 2006, 05:24 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Feb 22 2006, 04:03 PM...   Feb 23 2006, 01:00 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 22 2006, 05:00 P...   Feb 23 2006, 03:47 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   You can find an overall summary of Thompson's ...   Feb 23 2006, 01:17 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Feb 22 2006, 03:43 PM) ...   Feb 23 2006, 01:29 AM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 23 2006, 01:29 A...   Feb 23 2006, 01:38 AM
|- - lyford   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Feb 22 2006, 05:38...   Feb 23 2006, 02:06 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Feb 23 2006, 03:47 AM...   Feb 23 2006, 04:37 AM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 23 2006, 04:37 A...   Feb 23 2006, 04:12 PM
|- - hugh   I wouldn’t have called Bruce’s posts a “rant”. I d...   Feb 25 2006, 07:03 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Feb 22 2006, 03:43 PM) ...   Feb 23 2006, 04:52 AM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 23 2006, 04:52 A...   Feb 23 2006, 10:33 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Feb 23 2006, 04:12...   Feb 24 2006, 01:55 AM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 24 2006, 01:55 A...   Feb 24 2006, 02:08 AM
|- - RNeuhaus   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 23 2006, 08:55 P...   Feb 24 2006, 03:21 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   You've just said yourself that American politi...   Feb 24 2006, 03:17 AM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 24 2006, 03:17 A...   Feb 24 2006, 04:20 PM
- - dvandorn   Watch it, Rodolfo -- if you worked for NASA, this ...   Feb 24 2006, 04:21 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   If I may make a smart-alecky crack, the world has ...   Feb 24 2006, 04:02 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 24 2006, 05:02 P...   Feb 24 2006, 05:25 PM
- - djellison   So what you're saying is that NASA should be d...   Feb 24 2006, 04:11 PM
- - djellison   We all know that Bruce is just someone who has to ...   Feb 24 2006, 05:00 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 24 2006, 05:00 PM)...   Feb 24 2006, 05:08 PM
- - djellison   You have to be stern and strict with him or he won...   Feb 24 2006, 05:22 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   At the risk of getting thrown out of this group by...   Feb 24 2006, 07:31 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 24 2006, 07:31 P...   Feb 24 2006, 08:09 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 24 2006, 05:00 PM)...   Feb 24 2006, 08:03 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 24 2006, 04:11 PM)...   Feb 24 2006, 08:13 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 24 2006, 08:13 P...   Feb 24 2006, 08:22 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Feb 24 2006, 08:09...   Feb 24 2006, 08:27 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   I'll leave you with the last word in our debat...   Feb 24 2006, 08:42 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 24 2006, 08:03 P...   Feb 24 2006, 08:54 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 24 2006, 08:54 P...   Feb 24 2006, 09:59 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 24 2006, 08:54 P...   Mar 18 2006, 12:50 AM
- - David   I don't see why the U.S./Soviet space race was...   Feb 24 2006, 11:21 PM
- - dvandorn   Well, Bruce, since *no* country on Earth has ever ...   Feb 25 2006, 02:01 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 24 2006, 09:59 PM)...   Feb 25 2006, 02:23 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Feb 25 2006, 02:01 AM) ...   Feb 25 2006, 02:58 AM
|- - David   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 25 2006, 02:58 A...   Feb 25 2006, 03:46 AM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (David @ Feb 24 2006, 09:46 PM) Is ...   Feb 25 2006, 04:39 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   About the motives of exploration (Earth exploratio...   Feb 25 2006, 06:39 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Well, I guess I'll have to stay "provocat...   Feb 25 2006, 11:47 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 25 2006, 11:47 P...   Feb 26 2006, 12:21 AM
||- - David   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Feb 26 2006, 12:21 AM) ...   Feb 26 2006, 03:06 AM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (David @ Feb 26 2006, 04:06 AM) My ...   Feb 26 2006, 07:55 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Feb 25 2006, 03:47 P...   Feb 26 2006, 03:56 AM
- - lyford   I appreciate the range of opinionated opinions exp...   Feb 26 2006, 01:47 AM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (lyford @ Feb 26 2006, 01:47 AM) PS...   Feb 26 2006, 09:41 AM
|- - lyford   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 26 2006, 01:41 AM)...   Feb 26 2006, 04:57 PM
|- - mchan   QUOTE (djellison @ Feb 26 2006, 01:41 AM)...   Feb 27 2006, 07:09 AM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (mchan @ Feb 27 2006, 07:09 AM) I u...   Feb 27 2006, 06:13 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I think the trouble stems from the fact that E-mai...   Feb 26 2006, 10:42 AM
- - djellison   Bingo. Doug   Feb 26 2006, 04:59 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   Doug, I would like to back mchan's last post,...   Feb 27 2006, 08:36 AM
- - djellison   The discussions about ID or SETI may be civil and ...   Feb 27 2006, 08:39 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   OK, acceptable. I can always go rant elsewhere......   Mar 1 2006, 11:53 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yeah, I saw that, and was cranking up to comment o...   Mar 18 2006, 03:45 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Jeff Bell has for some time been confidently predi...   Mar 21 2006, 04:45 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 20 2006, 09:45 P...   Mar 21 2006, 09:08 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Well, my God, that's because at this point the...   Mar 21 2006, 10:41 PM


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