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Liquid water on Enceladus, Guysers of liquid water found on Enceladuus
jsheff
post Mar 9 2006, 07:26 PM
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Enceladus just jumped to way near the top of the list of biologically interesting places. We know how to get to Mars; we some ideas of further exploration of Euiropa and Titan. Has anyone designed a mission to land on Enceladus? What would it take? How much delta vee?
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nprev
post Mar 10 2006, 01:26 AM
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QUOTE (jsheff @ Mar 9 2006, 11:26 AM) *
Enceladus just jumped to way near the top of the list of biologically interesting places. We know how to get to Mars; we some ideas of further exploration of Euiropa and Titan. Has anyone designed a mission to land on Enceladus? What would it take? How much delta vee?


In at least two respects, Enceladus now appears to be a much easier target than Europa as far as UMSF life seaches go: the crust apparently isn't nearly as thick, and the radiation environment is much more benign. Maybe the more expensive delta vee considerations would be more than offset by savings in lander/diver(?) design...


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tasp
post Mar 10 2006, 02:21 AM
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QUOTE (nprev @ Mar 9 2006, 07:26 PM) *
In at least two respects, Enceladus now appears to be a much easier target than Europa as far as UMSF life seaches go: the crust apparently isn't nearly as thick, and the radiation environment is much more benign. Maybe the more expensive delta vee considerations would be more than offset by savings in lander/diver(?) design...



Perhaps a craft could use Titan (as Cassini is) for orbit shaping. Several encounters could be set up to 'crank down' the orbit to graze Enceladus and Titan at apogee and perigee.

This would still leave the craft with a considerable velocity in the vicinity of Enceladus to 'burn off' though.

Would a ballute work in a water vapor plume at an altitude of 10 km? Every pass at Enceldaus would lower the apogee of the orbit (and the subsequent approach speed to Enceladus next time around) a bit, and you just keep grazing the plumes with your ballute till the approach speed is something your propulsion system can handle for either orbiting Enceladus or landing on it.

Note:
I don't have the figures handy but I seem to recall the equvalent of the Hill sphere of Enceladus (in reference to Saturn, not the sun) is quite small (Mimas's is miniscule). Perhaps useful studies might be feasible from an orbit that encounters Enceladus resonantly, or perhaps there is a slick way to get into a Lagrange orbit of some kind . . . .


blink.gif How 'fluffy' is the surface? Maybe Enceladus is the one object in the solar system where 'lithobraking' is feasible.

{that last one may not be too serious, but if feasible, I claim priority}
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jmknapp
post Mar 10 2006, 11:09 AM
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QUOTE (tasp @ Mar 9 2006, 09:21 PM) *
Would a ballute work in a water vapor plume at an altitude of 10 km?


Could be water vapor and ice particles though--kind of abrasive. If water vapor is coming out of the vents at high pressure and temperature (above 0C anyway) wouldn't it condense rapidly, effectively like a snow-making machine?


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Posts in this topic
- jsheff   Liquid water on Enceladus   Mar 9 2006, 07:26 PM
- - Jyril   Enceladus has been near the top of the list since ...   Mar 9 2006, 08:34 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   "liquid water" seems a little bit exager...   Mar 9 2006, 09:09 PM
- - ljk4-1   I distinctly remember the National Geographic Maga...   Mar 9 2006, 09:45 PM
|- - jmknapp   Here's the Science magazine intro: Tiger, Tig...   Mar 9 2006, 10:03 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Mar 9 2006, 09:45 PM...   Mar 10 2006, 12:58 AM
- - Decepticon   I remember that picture! I saw it in National...   Mar 9 2006, 09:57 PM
- - lyford   Interview with Dr. Carolyn Porco JPL Podcast   Mar 10 2006, 12:26 AM
- - nprev   QUOTE (jsheff @ Mar 9 2006, 11:26 AM) Enc...   Mar 10 2006, 01:26 AM
|- - tasp   QUOTE (nprev @ Mar 9 2006, 07:26 PM) In a...   Mar 10 2006, 02:21 AM
|- - David   QUOTE (tasp @ Mar 10 2006, 02:21 AM) Perh...   Mar 10 2006, 02:26 AM
||- - nprev   QUOTE (David @ Mar 9 2006, 06:26 PM) They...   Mar 10 2006, 03:52 AM
|- - tasp   QUOTE (tasp @ Mar 9 2006, 08:21 PM) How...   Mar 10 2006, 02:33 AM
|- - mchan   QUOTE (tasp @ Mar 9 2006, 06:21 PM) How...   Mar 10 2006, 03:54 AM
|- - jmknapp   QUOTE (tasp @ Mar 9 2006, 09:21 PM) Would...   Mar 10 2006, 11:09 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (jmknapp @ Mar 10 2006, 12:09 PM) C...   Mar 10 2006, 12:29 PM
- - vexgizmo   James Oberg Chimes in: Let Us Drink from the Fou...   Mar 10 2006, 05:07 AM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (vexgizmo @ Mar 9 2006, 09:07 PM) J...   Mar 10 2006, 05:20 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (vexgizmo @ Mar 10 2006, 06:07 AM) ...   Mar 10 2006, 09:25 AM
|- - ugordan   <PESSIMISM> IMHO, all this sudden talk about...   Mar 10 2006, 09:33 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (ugordan @ Mar 10 2006, 10:33 AM) ...   Mar 10 2006, 10:15 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   They would if you kept 'em cold enough after c...   Mar 10 2006, 05:35 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   This has certainly put the cat among the pigeons w...   Mar 11 2006, 11:14 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   Oh, dear. Jason might not be very pleased by all t...   Mar 11 2006, 11:33 AM
|- - RGClark   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Mar 11 2006, 11:33 AM) ...   Mar 19 2006, 09:53 AM
- - paulanderson   There is an interesting finding noted in Emily...   Mar 19 2006, 01:26 AM
- - Richard Trigaux   Acetylene? interesting. This speaks in favour of ...   Mar 19 2006, 07:15 AM
|- - paulanderson   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Mar 18 2006, 11...   Mar 19 2006, 11:38 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yeah, we've got a discussion of that going in ...   Mar 19 2006, 08:45 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   As I said, acetylene is an energized molecule, whi...   Mar 20 2006, 07:50 AM
- - edstrick   "If we are really sure that this acetylene is...   Mar 20 2006, 08:46 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (edstrick @ Mar 20 2006, 01:46 AM) ...   Mar 20 2006, 02:59 PM
|- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (edstrick @ Mar 20 2006, 08:46 AM) ...   Mar 20 2006, 06:07 PM
- - paulanderson   Does anyone have further info about the compositio...   Apr 2 2006, 08:15 AM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (paulanderson @ Apr 2 2006, 01:15 A...   Apr 3 2006, 05:12 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Apr 3 2006, 06:12 PM...   Apr 3 2006, 05:36 PM
||- - volcanopele   QUOTE (ugordan @ Apr 3 2006, 10:36 AM) So...   Apr 3 2006, 05:53 PM
|- - paulanderson   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Apr 3 2006, 10:12 AM...   Apr 3 2006, 06:44 PM
|- - paulanderson   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Apr 3 2006, 10:12 AM...   Apr 4 2006, 07:18 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (paulanderson @ Apr 4 2006, 12:18 P...   Apr 4 2006, 07:57 PM
- - ljk4-1   Science/Astronomy: * Encore For Enceladus! Sa...   Apr 3 2006, 04:33 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Apr 3 2006, 10:33 AM...   Apr 3 2006, 05:23 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Apr 3 2006, 09:33 AM...   Apr 3 2006, 06:48 PM
- - dvandorn   Here's an offbeat question: Are the Enceladan...   Apr 3 2006, 05:54 PM
|- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Apr 3 2006, 05:54 PM) A...   Apr 3 2006, 06:00 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Apr 3 2006, 06:54 PM) A...   Apr 3 2006, 06:07 PM
|- - Rob Pinnegar   QUOTE (ugordan @ Apr 3 2006, 11:07 AM) If...   Apr 4 2006, 08:24 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   I'm just waiting for a chance to get all the w...   Apr 5 2006, 12:05 AM
- - Myran   This is odd, and perhaps unrelated. But Saturns o...   Apr 6 2006, 07:22 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (Myran @ Apr 6 2006, 12:22 PM) But ...   Apr 6 2006, 10:27 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE volcanopele wrote: The color is related to t...   Apr 7 2006, 03:10 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   VERY interesting interview with the Enceladus rese...   Apr 10 2006, 12:34 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Interesting graphic, too. The article went a littl...   Apr 10 2006, 02:13 PM
- - centsworth_II   Wouldn't the water pocket sit directly on the ...   Apr 10 2006, 03:47 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Apr 10 2006, 09:47...   Apr 10 2006, 04:01 PM
||- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Apr 10 2006, 11:01...   Apr 10 2006, 04:08 PM
||- - The Messenger   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Apr 10 2006, 10:08...   Apr 10 2006, 05:43 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Apr 10 2006, 05:43...   Apr 10 2006, 06:29 PM
||- - The Messenger   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Apr 10 2006, 12...   Apr 10 2006, 08:48 PM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Apr 10 2006, 08:48...   Apr 10 2006, 10:14 PM
||- - Bob Shaw   Surely there are well-observed examples of water-i...   Apr 11 2006, 11:35 AM
||- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Apr 11 2006, 11:35 AM) ...   Apr 11 2006, 12:10 PM
||- - climber   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Apr 11 2006, 02...   Apr 12 2006, 08:42 PM
||- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (climber @ Apr 12 2006, 09:42 PM) I...   Apr 12 2006, 09:16 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Apr 10 2006, 03:47...   Apr 10 2006, 04:04 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (helvick @ Apr 10 2006, 04:04 PM) P...   Apr 10 2006, 05:17 PM
- - ljk4-1   Has anyone determined why the geysers are happenin...   Apr 10 2006, 06:46 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   The most likely explanation is about convection pa...   Apr 10 2006, 07:06 PM


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