My Assistant
Liquid water on Enceladus, Guysers of liquid water found on Enceladuus |
Mar 9 2006, 07:26 PM
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Junior Member ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 14-June 05 From: Cambridge, MA Member No.: 411 |
Enceladus just jumped to way near the top of the list of biologically interesting places. We know how to get to Mars; we some ideas of further exploration of Euiropa and Titan. Has anyone designed a mission to land on Enceladus? What would it take? How much delta vee?
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Mar 10 2006, 01:26 AM
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#2
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Merciless Robot ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 8791 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Enceladus just jumped to way near the top of the list of biologically interesting places. We know how to get to Mars; we some ideas of further exploration of Euiropa and Titan. Has anyone designed a mission to land on Enceladus? What would it take? How much delta vee? In at least two respects, Enceladus now appears to be a much easier target than Europa as far as UMSF life seaches go: the crust apparently isn't nearly as thick, and the radiation environment is much more benign. Maybe the more expensive delta vee considerations would be more than offset by savings in lander/diver(?) design... -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Mar 10 2006, 02:21 AM
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#3
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 30-January 05 Member No.: 162 |
In at least two respects, Enceladus now appears to be a much easier target than Europa as far as UMSF life seaches go: the crust apparently isn't nearly as thick, and the radiation environment is much more benign. Maybe the more expensive delta vee considerations would be more than offset by savings in lander/diver(?) design... Perhaps a craft could use Titan (as Cassini is) for orbit shaping. Several encounters could be set up to 'crank down' the orbit to graze Enceladus and Titan at apogee and perigee. This would still leave the craft with a considerable velocity in the vicinity of Enceladus to 'burn off' though. Would a ballute work in a water vapor plume at an altitude of 10 km? Every pass at Enceldaus would lower the apogee of the orbit (and the subsequent approach speed to Enceladus next time around) a bit, and you just keep grazing the plumes with your ballute till the approach speed is something your propulsion system can handle for either orbiting Enceladus or landing on it. Note: I don't have the figures handy but I seem to recall the equvalent of the Hill sphere of Enceladus (in reference to Saturn, not the sun) is quite small (Mimas's is miniscule). Perhaps useful studies might be feasible from an orbit that encounters Enceladus resonantly, or perhaps there is a slick way to get into a Lagrange orbit of some kind . . . . {that last one may not be too serious, but if feasible, I claim priority} |
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Mar 10 2006, 11:09 AM
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#4
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1465 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Columbus OH USA Member No.: 13 |
Would a ballute work in a water vapor plume at an altitude of 10 km? Could be water vapor and ice particles though--kind of abrasive. If water vapor is coming out of the vents at high pressure and temperature (above 0C anyway) wouldn't it condense rapidly, effectively like a snow-making machine? -------------------- |
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jsheff Liquid water on Enceladus Mar 9 2006, 07:26 PM
Jyril Enceladus has been near the top of the list since ... Mar 9 2006, 08:34 PM
Richard Trigaux "liquid water" seems a little bit exager... Mar 9 2006, 09:09 PM
ljk4-1 I distinctly remember the National Geographic Maga... Mar 9 2006, 09:45 PM
jmknapp Here's the Science magazine intro:
Tiger, Tig... Mar 9 2006, 10:03 PM
David QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Mar 9 2006, 09:45 PM... Mar 10 2006, 12:58 AM
Decepticon I remember that picture!
I saw it in National... Mar 9 2006, 09:57 PM
lyford Interview with Dr. Carolyn Porco
JPL Podcast Mar 10 2006, 12:26 AM
David QUOTE (tasp @ Mar 10 2006, 02:21 AM) Perh... Mar 10 2006, 02:26 AM

nprev QUOTE (David @ Mar 9 2006, 06:26 PM) They... Mar 10 2006, 03:52 AM
tasp QUOTE (tasp @ Mar 9 2006, 08:21 PM) How... Mar 10 2006, 02:33 AM
mchan QUOTE (tasp @ Mar 9 2006, 06:21 PM) How... Mar 10 2006, 03:54 AM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (jmknapp @ Mar 10 2006, 12:09 PM) C... Mar 10 2006, 12:29 PM
vexgizmo James Oberg Chimes in:
Let Us Drink from the Fou... Mar 10 2006, 05:07 AM
nprev QUOTE (vexgizmo @ Mar 9 2006, 09:07 PM) J... Mar 10 2006, 05:20 AM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (vexgizmo @ Mar 10 2006, 06:07 AM) ... Mar 10 2006, 09:25 AM
ugordan <PESSIMISM>
IMHO, all this sudden talk about... Mar 10 2006, 09:33 AM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (ugordan @ Mar 10 2006, 10:33 AM) ... Mar 10 2006, 10:15 AM
BruceMoomaw They would if you kept 'em cold enough after c... Mar 10 2006, 05:35 AM
BruceMoomaw This has certainly put the cat among the pigeons w... Mar 11 2006, 11:14 AM
Bob Shaw Oh, dear. Jason might not be very pleased by all t... Mar 11 2006, 11:33 AM
RGClark QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Mar 11 2006, 11:33 AM) ... Mar 19 2006, 09:53 AM
paulanderson There is an interesting finding noted in Emily... Mar 19 2006, 01:26 AM
Richard Trigaux Acetylene? interesting.
This speaks in favour of ... Mar 19 2006, 07:15 AM
paulanderson QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Mar 18 2006, 11... Mar 19 2006, 11:38 PM
BruceMoomaw Yeah, we've got a discussion of that going in ... Mar 19 2006, 08:45 PM
Richard Trigaux As I said, acetylene is an energized molecule, whi... Mar 20 2006, 07:50 AM
edstrick "If we are really sure that this acetylene is... Mar 20 2006, 08:46 AM
The Messenger QUOTE (edstrick @ Mar 20 2006, 01:46 AM) ... Mar 20 2006, 02:59 PM
BruceMoomaw QUOTE (edstrick @ Mar 20 2006, 08:46 AM) ... Mar 20 2006, 06:07 PM
paulanderson Does anyone have further info about the compositio... Apr 2 2006, 08:15 AM
volcanopele QUOTE (paulanderson @ Apr 2 2006, 01:15 A... Apr 3 2006, 05:12 PM
ugordan QUOTE (volcanopele @ Apr 3 2006, 06:12 PM... Apr 3 2006, 05:36 PM

volcanopele QUOTE (ugordan @ Apr 3 2006, 10:36 AM) So... Apr 3 2006, 05:53 PM
paulanderson QUOTE (volcanopele @ Apr 3 2006, 10:12 AM... Apr 3 2006, 06:44 PM
paulanderson QUOTE (volcanopele @ Apr 3 2006, 10:12 AM... Apr 4 2006, 07:18 PM
volcanopele QUOTE (paulanderson @ Apr 4 2006, 12:18 P... Apr 4 2006, 07:57 PM
ljk4-1 Science/Astronomy:
* Encore For Enceladus! Sa... Apr 3 2006, 04:33 PM
The Messenger QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Apr 3 2006, 10:33 AM... Apr 3 2006, 05:23 PM
volcanopele QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Apr 3 2006, 09:33 AM... Apr 3 2006, 06:48 PM
dvandorn Here's an offbeat question:
Are the Enceladan... Apr 3 2006, 05:54 PM
ElkGroveDan QUOTE (dvandorn @ Apr 3 2006, 05:54 PM) A... Apr 3 2006, 06:00 PM
ugordan QUOTE (dvandorn @ Apr 3 2006, 06:54 PM) A... Apr 3 2006, 06:07 PM
Rob Pinnegar QUOTE (ugordan @ Apr 3 2006, 11:07 AM) If... Apr 4 2006, 08:24 PM
BruceMoomaw I'm just waiting for a chance to get all the w... Apr 5 2006, 12:05 AM
Myran This is odd, and perhaps unrelated.
But Saturns o... Apr 6 2006, 07:22 PM
volcanopele QUOTE (Myran @ Apr 6 2006, 12:22 PM) But ... Apr 6 2006, 10:27 PM
Myran QUOTE volcanopele wrote: The color is related to t... Apr 7 2006, 03:10 PM
BruceMoomaw VERY interesting interview with the Enceladus rese... Apr 10 2006, 12:34 PM
Bob Shaw Interesting graphic, too. The article went a littl... Apr 10 2006, 02:13 PM
centsworth_II Wouldn't the water pocket sit directly on the ... Apr 10 2006, 03:47 PM
The Messenger QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Apr 10 2006, 09:47... Apr 10 2006, 04:01 PM

centsworth_II QUOTE (The Messenger @ Apr 10 2006, 11:01... Apr 10 2006, 04:08 PM

The Messenger QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Apr 10 2006, 10:08... Apr 10 2006, 05:43 PM

Richard Trigaux QUOTE (The Messenger @ Apr 10 2006, 05:43... Apr 10 2006, 06:29 PM

The Messenger QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Apr 10 2006, 12... Apr 10 2006, 08:48 PM

Richard Trigaux QUOTE (The Messenger @ Apr 10 2006, 08:48... Apr 10 2006, 10:14 PM

Bob Shaw Surely there are well-observed examples of water-i... Apr 11 2006, 11:35 AM

Richard Trigaux QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Apr 11 2006, 11:35 AM) ... Apr 11 2006, 12:10 PM

climber QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Apr 11 2006, 02... Apr 12 2006, 08:42 PM

Bob Shaw QUOTE (climber @ Apr 12 2006, 09:42 PM) I... Apr 12 2006, 09:16 PM
helvick QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Apr 10 2006, 03:47... Apr 10 2006, 04:04 PM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (helvick @ Apr 10 2006, 04:04 PM) P... Apr 10 2006, 05:17 PM
ljk4-1 Has anyone determined why the geysers are happenin... Apr 10 2006, 06:46 PM
Richard Trigaux The most likely explanation is about convection pa... Apr 10 2006, 07:06 PM![]() ![]() |
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