IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Is Europa really the "highest priority" of the community?, Cleave said it was at LPSC?
mcaplinger
post Mar 15 2006, 05:50 PM
Post #1


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1292
Joined: 13-September 05
Member No.: 497



From Emily's LPSC blog: "Bob Pappalardo would not sit down until he got Cleave to acknowledge that Europa is the consensus highest priority of the planetary science community."

Cleave was obviously poorly prepared for this session, but I don't see that this acknowledgement is either meaningful or particularly accurate. If Europa were the "highest priority" of the PS community as a whole, then one might wonder why we were spending all this money on Mars. I could easily imagine that Europa is the highest priority of the outer planets community, but frankly I was surprised when Europa Orbiter appeared in the '07 budget (presumably the result of some serious lobbying on someone's part.) It was pretty obvious to me then that there would be no money for it, especially in the aftermath of JPL running the old EO project into the ground with cost overruns and engineering upscopes. (And JIMO is best forgotten.)

Don't get me wrong, I would love to be involved with a Europa mission (we did what I think was a good proposal design for EO) but I don't see either the money or the political support being there in the near term. I know it's frustrating, but one has to be realistic, and it might help to avoid the aura of entitlement that I perceive is building in some parts of the community (not referring to you, Bob). Of course, I am just a lowly engineer.


--------------------
Disclaimer: This post is based on public information only. Any opinions are my own.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
djellison
post Mar 15 2006, 07:29 PM
Post #2


Administrator
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 13806
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1



If you're in your 20's - you have Cassini
If you're in your 30's - you had Galileo
If you're in your 40's - you had Voyager
If you're in your 50's - you had Viking

yes yes - lots of overlap and doesnt really sit in those catagories properly, it's a metaphor more than a real survey of the past - but there's nothing for our teenagers - where is their Voyager? Has there been a point in the last 40 years when the next really big mission wasnt at least in the planning stages?

Doug
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tedstryk
post Mar 16 2006, 04:22 PM
Post #3


Interplanetary Dumpster Diver
****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 4241
Joined: 17-February 04
From: Powell, TN
Member No.: 33



QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 15 2006, 07:29 PM) *
If you're in your 20's - you have Cassini
If you're in your 30's - you had Galileo
If you're in your 40's - you had Voyager
If you're in your 50's - you had Viking

yes yes - lots of overlap and doesnt really sit in those catagories properly, it's a metaphor more than a real survey of the past - but there's nothing for our teenagers - where is their Voyager? Has there been a point in the last 40 years when the next really big mission wasnt at least in the planning stages?

Doug

If you're in your 60's - you had Apollo.

Well, there has been continuity....in outer solar system exploration, the pioneers started, and the Voyagers overlapped the end of their solar system mission. Then Galileo was launched just after Voyager 2 flew by Neptune, and Cassini had flown by Jupiter and was on its way to Saturn by the end of its mission. Now we have New Horizons with Juno on the way. What disturbs me is, ignoring the technological advances that skew the comparison, Juno and New Horizons seem more on the scale of Pioneer. Now, if we look at solar system exploration in general, MSL might fill the roll of a big mission.


I think it is really a mixed bag. There certainly is the lack of big missions coming down the pipe. But we are in much better shape than the 1980s, which, had Voyager and PVO not outlived their waranties, would have been limited to ICE, a "comandeered" planetary mission, the Halley flotilla, some Veneras, and Phobos-2.

A major problem, after New Horizons, is that our targets are more problematic. The public can follow the idea of missions to the moon, Mars, Venus, Pluto, etc. But Titan, Europa, Ceres, Vesta, Io, and the Kuiper Belt? Most people have never even heard of the these places, including Congress. We are eating the fruit of decades of bad science education.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JRehling
post Mar 16 2006, 04:46 PM
Post #4


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1572
Joined: 20-April 05
Member No.: 321



QUOTE (tedstryk @ Mar 16 2006, 08:22 AM) *
If you're in your 60's - you had Apollo.


If you're in your 90's - you had Lindbergh.
biggrin.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- mcaplinger   Is Europa really the "highest priority" of the community?   Mar 15 2006, 05:50 PM
- - elakdawalla   That was slightly sloppy reporting on my part, and...   Mar 15 2006, 07:19 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Mar 15 2006, 07:19 P...   Mar 15 2006, 07:43 PM
|- - Marz   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Mar 15 2006, 01:19 P...   Mar 15 2006, 08:04 PM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Mar 15 2006, 07:19 P...   Mar 16 2006, 04:51 AM
- - djellison   If you're in your 20's - you have Cassini ...   Mar 15 2006, 07:29 PM
|- - paxdan   QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 15 2006, 07:29 PM)...   Mar 15 2006, 07:34 PM
||- - djellison   QUOTE (paxdan @ Mar 15 2006, 07:34 PM) On...   Mar 15 2006, 07:53 PM
|- - gpurcell   QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 15 2006, 07:29 PM)...   Mar 16 2006, 01:57 PM
||- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (gpurcell @ Mar 16 2006, 08:57 AM) ...   Mar 16 2006, 02:27 PM
|||- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Mar 16 2006, 02:27 P...   Mar 16 2006, 04:12 PM
|||- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 16 2006, 11:12...   Mar 16 2006, 05:36 PM
|||- - tedstryk   QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ Mar 16 2006, 05:36 P...   Mar 16 2006, 09:15 PM
||- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (gpurcell @ Mar 16 2006, 05:57 AM) ...   Mar 16 2006, 02:57 PM
||- - djellison   QUOTE (gpurcell @ Mar 16 2006, 01:57 PM) ...   Mar 16 2006, 04:26 PM
||- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 16 2006, 04:26 PM)...   Mar 16 2006, 04:33 PM
||- - tedstryk   QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 16 2006, 04:26 PM)...   Mar 16 2006, 05:28 PM
||- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Mar 16 2006, 05:28 PM) ...   Mar 16 2006, 05:33 PM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 15 2006, 07:29 PM)...   Mar 16 2006, 04:22 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Mar 16 2006, 08:22 AM) ...   Mar 16 2006, 04:46 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 16 2006, 04:46 PM) ...   Mar 16 2006, 04:47 PM
|- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 16 2006, 11:46 AM) ...   Mar 16 2006, 05:12 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 15 2006, 05:50 PM...   Mar 15 2006, 07:31 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Not only did the 2002 Decadal Survey rank Europa a...   Mar 15 2006, 10:43 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 15 2006, 10:43 P...   Mar 15 2006, 10:58 PM
|- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 15 2006, 02:43 P...   Mar 15 2006, 11:22 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Mar 15 2006, 11:22 P...   Mar 15 2006, 11:56 PM
||- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 15 2006, 03:56...   Mar 16 2006, 01:46 AM
||- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Mar 16 2006, 01:46 A...   Mar 16 2006, 01:53 AM
||- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 15 2006, 05:53...   Mar 16 2006, 01:57 AM
||- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Mar 16 2006, 01:57 A...   Mar 16 2006, 02:05 AM
||- - elakdawalla   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 15 2006, 06:05...   Mar 16 2006, 02:27 AM
|- - JRehling   I'm profoundly disturbed by the notion that th...   Mar 16 2006, 01:26 AM
- - nprev   Sad to see all this intramural political wrangling...   Mar 16 2006, 12:45 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 15 2006, 05:50 PM...   Mar 16 2006, 02:14 AM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 15 2006, 08:14 P...   Mar 18 2006, 04:50 PM
|- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Mar 18 2006, 04:50 PM) ...   Mar 19 2006, 12:54 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Regarding Titan exploration: the PS community curr...   Mar 16 2006, 03:00 AM
|- - vjkane2000   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 15 2006, 08:00 P...   Mar 16 2006, 04:58 AM
- - remcook   That's pretty depressing, especially if you wa...   Mar 16 2006, 03:37 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   Andrew Lawler has an excellent article ("A Sp...   Mar 16 2006, 09:31 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Yeah, before we start sniffling too much about our...   Mar 17 2006, 04:33 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 17 2006, 04:33 A...   Mar 17 2006, 08:26 AM
|- - tedstryk   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Mar 17 2006, 08:26 AM) ...   Mar 17 2006, 03:40 PM
||- - mchan   QUOTE (tedstryk @ Mar 17 2006, 07:40 AM) ...   Mar 18 2006, 04:55 AM
||- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (mchan @ Mar 18 2006, 04:55 AM) Ros...   Mar 18 2006, 01:39 PM
||- - Tom Tamlyn   Emily Lakdawalla's latest blog entry has a cha...   Mar 18 2006, 04:57 PM
||- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (Tom Tamlyn @ Mar 18 2006, 04:57 PM...   Mar 19 2006, 01:22 AM
|||- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 19 2006, 01:22 A...   Mar 20 2006, 05:58 PM
||- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Tom Tamlyn @ Mar 18 2006, 08:57 AM...   Mar 19 2006, 09:07 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   An improved version of the list: Active interpla...   Mar 18 2006, 05:35 PM
|- - ljk4-1   Though it has not been heard from since 2000, Pion...   Mar 18 2006, 05:49 PM
- - edstrick   As a boy, my dad (who worked as a quality control ...   Mar 17 2006, 09:52 AM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (edstrick @ Mar 17 2006, 04:52 AM) ...   Mar 17 2006, 01:06 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   Mark Peplow has an update in his LPSC blog.   Mar 18 2006, 12:47 AM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 17 2006, 04:47...   Mar 18 2006, 01:40 AM
- - elakdawalla   Aw, shucks, guys... I think only very few dieha...   Mar 19 2006, 06:42 AM
- - Mariner9   This whole situation reminds me a lot of the early...   Mar 19 2006, 08:53 PM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (Mariner9 @ Mar 19 2006, 08:53 PM) ...   Mar 20 2006, 10:31 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (Stephen @ Mar 20 2006, 11:31 AM) B...   Mar 20 2006, 01:15 PM
|- - JamesFox   QUOTE (Stephen @ Mar 20 2006, 05:31 AM) B...   Mar 20 2006, 01:29 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   There are other problems with running small missio...   Mar 20 2006, 01:42 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 19 2006, 05:42 P...   Mar 20 2006, 03:49 PM
- - djellison   I wonder what might be feasable using the Juno pla...   Mar 20 2006, 04:02 PM
- - Mariner9   Is one Europa orbiter more cost effective than 3 l...   Mar 20 2006, 04:29 PM
- - Mariner9   One last point. Viking was scaled down from o...   Mar 20 2006, 04:45 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   This is turning into an awfully interesting debate...   Mar 20 2006, 06:19 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 20 2006, 06:19 P...   Mar 20 2006, 09:10 PM
||- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 20 2006, 09:10...   Mar 20 2006, 10:01 PM
||- - JRehling   This has been insightful. Europa currently has la...   Mar 20 2006, 10:32 PM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 20 2006, 06:19 P...   Mar 21 2006, 12:41 AM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (Stephen @ Mar 21 2006, 12:41 AM) W...   Mar 21 2006, 12:48 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   I very much doubt it could transmit them fast enou...   Mar 21 2006, 02:49 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   This thing is apparently also quite a wide-angle c...   Mar 21 2006, 03:00 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 20 2006, 07:00 P...   Mar 21 2006, 03:32 AM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 21 2006, 03:32 AM) ...   Mar 21 2006, 06:35 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Looks like my whole idea was another pipe dream. ...   Mar 21 2006, 03:43 AM
|- - Stephen   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 21 2006, 03:43 A...   Mar 21 2006, 05:56 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   John Rehling's idea for Europa Orbiter just mi...   Mar 21 2006, 03:53 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   While I'm on the subject of Europa Orbiter and...   Mar 21 2006, 04:03 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 20 2006, 08:03 P...   Mar 21 2006, 04:07 AM
||- - JRehling   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 20 2006, 08:07 PM...   Mar 21 2006, 08:01 AM
|- - mchan   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 20 2006, 08:03 P...   Mar 21 2006, 04:34 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Well, that's what they kept assuring all of us...   Mar 21 2006, 04:34 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 20 2006, 08:34 P...   Mar 21 2006, 04:46 AM
|- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Mar 21 2006, 04:46 AM...   Mar 21 2006, 10:03 PM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 21 2006, 02:03 P...   Mar 22 2006, 12:21 AM
- - dvandorn   Oh, gee -- that reminds me of an sf story I once r...   Mar 21 2006, 08:10 AM
- - edstrick   I last tested vaccuum tubes in the early 90's,...   Mar 21 2006, 09:02 AM
- - djellison   I think JUNO might actually do harm for the 'E...   Mar 21 2006, 07:44 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 21 2006, 07:44 PM)...   Mar 21 2006, 08:03 PM
|- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 21 2006, 08:03...   Mar 21 2006, 10:36 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 21 2006, 02:36 P...   Mar 21 2006, 10:54 PM
|- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (JRehling @ Mar 21 2006, 10:54 PM) ...   Mar 22 2006, 12:16 AM
- - JamesFox   What I was thinking of myself, is pretty much a Ne...   Mar 21 2006, 11:17 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (JamesFox @ Mar 21 2006, 03:17 PM) ...   Mar 21 2006, 11:33 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   It would take a LOT bigger retrorocket. By the ...   Mar 22 2006, 12:06 AM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 21 2006, 04:06 P...   Mar 22 2006, 12:12 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Regarding other ideas: two of the second-tier NF m...   Mar 22 2006, 12:31 AM
2 Pages V   1 2 >


Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 25th October 2014 - 09:28 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is a project of the Planetary Society and is funded by donations from visitors and members. Help keep this forum up and running by contributing here.