Origin of Phobos and Deimos, Where did these guys come from? |
Origin of Phobos and Deimos, Where did these guys come from? |
Mar 25 2006, 02:49 PM
Post
#1
|
|
![]() Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 150 Joined: 17-March 05 Member No.: 206 |
So what is everyone's thoughts on the origin of Mars' moons Phobos and Deimos? They are a bit of a mystery.
Here are the different theories: 1. They formed along with Mars when it accreted out of the plantary nebula. Pros: explains how both are in the same circular, equatorial orbit around Mars. Cons: Seems a strange coincidence that we are around to witness Phobos in such a low orbit that it is about (in a couple million years) to crash out of orbit. Also this would be the only case in the solar system where such small "asteroid-like" moons formed around such a large body. 2. They were captured into orbit around Mars. Pros: This would explain their similarity to asteroids out in the Belt. Cons: The probability that they would be both be captured into circular and equatorial orbits is virtually zero. Also, there is no know mechanism for asteroids to be captured by such a small body like Mars (after all the moons didn’t do perigee burns to brake them into orbit) 3. They were once part of a larger moon that that broke up into several pieces. Phobos and Deimos are the last remnants of it. Pros: This would explain how both moons have circular and equaltorial orbits (since they started from the same body). Theoretically, there would have been many more moons at one time, but they have crashed into Mars one by one, as Phobos is on course to do. Cons: Phobos and Deimos do not appear to be very similar compositionally, which is strange if they came from the same moon. Of course it was large enough, the large proto-moon may have been differentiated. 4. The moons were formed from a large impact early in Mars history, perhaps from the impact that created the Hellas basin or the northern lowlands. This impact formed a small debris field around Mars which accreted into the moons. Pros: Explains the circular orbits of the moons and Moons created from early gigantic impacts seems to be a re-occurring theme we see in the rest of the solar system (i.e. Earth's Moon and likely Pluto's moons) Cons: While it explains the circular orbits, it does not explain how they are equatorial. I believe the favored theory this decade is number 3, where a large body was present, but was broken up. What is everyone's thoughts? |
|
|
|
![]() |
Jul 2 2008, 03:24 AM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 881 Joined: 30-January 05 Member No.: 162 |
Just brain storming here;
Perhaps Phobos and Deimos are primordial to Mars (or nearly so) but their 'original' orbits or an early evolved form of those orbits might have been something we don't see else where in the solar system today. (Phobos or Deimos may or may not be remainders of a past 'population' of Martian satellites, I am not qualified to rate the effect that would have on this scenario's probability) What I am thinking is fairly soon after Mars ( and the rest of the solar system 'settled down" after the late heavy bombardment) Phobos and Deimos might have had their orbits evolve into a resonant condition. But with a 'twist' we haven't seen anywhere else. The resonance was achieved with Deimos outside of the aerosynchronous orbit and Phobos inside. Has anyone ever modeled a resonance that straddles the 'object/rotation/synchronous altitude ?? I guess I would not be surprised if there is 'sumthin' weird' about a resonant relationship like that, perhaps in allowing (presumably) short lived objects like Phobos and Deimos to persist into our epoch. Why don't we perceive a resonant relationship now? Maybe the Stickney impactor deceled Phobos sufficiently to break the resonance in the past <1gy, and we now observe it in a secularly accelerating orbit. I don't have the mental faculties right now to see if Phobos is just inside a 3:1 (or whatever to 1) with Deimos, and the plausible decel from a Stickney impact would make up the difference . . . . (but if someone else wants to, no problemo) |
|
|
|
Chmee Origin of Phobos and Deimos Mar 25 2006, 02:49 PM
djellison I've always thought it was 2 that was the most... Mar 25 2006, 04:11 PM
BruceMoomaw QUOTE (djellison @ Mar 25 2006, 04:11 PM)... Mar 27 2006, 08:24 PM
Phil Stooke Well... this is an interesting subject, but not on... Mar 25 2006, 06:16 PM
AlexBlackwell I'll stand by my post from December 29, 2005. Mar 26 2006, 05:40 PM
AlexBlackwell To keep this thread active, I've copied my abo... Mar 26 2006, 09:25 PM
nprev QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 26 2006, 01:25... Mar 26 2006, 10:14 PM
AlexBlackwell QUOTE (tasp @ Mar 26 2006, 07:05 PM) Wow.... Mar 26 2006, 09:40 PM
BruceMoomaw In this connection, there's an extremely inter... Mar 27 2006, 02:23 AM
Bob Shaw QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 27 2006, 03:23 A... Mar 27 2006, 12:17 PM

antoniseb I think that option 4 is a serious possibility, an... Mar 27 2006, 03:58 PM
AlexBlackwell QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 27 2006, 02:23 A... Mar 27 2006, 08:31 PM
Bob Shaw QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 27 2006, 09:31... Mar 27 2006, 09:51 PM
BruceMoomaw QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Mar 27 2006, 08:31... Mar 27 2006, 10:02 PM
AlexBlackwell QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Mar 27 2006, 10:02 P... Mar 28 2006, 12:25 AM
edstrick ...."Perhaps there *are* remnants in orbit ar... Mar 28 2006, 08:59 AM
BruceMoomaw The resolution of the searches with ground-based t... Mar 28 2006, 07:58 PM
Harkeppler By spectra, both martian moons look quite differen... Jul 1 2008, 10:56 PM
Adonis QUOTE (Harkeppler @ Jul 2 2008, 12:56 AM)... Jul 12 2008, 08:38 PM
SpaceListener A possibility is that Phobos and Deimos are the re... Jul 2 2008, 01:57 AM
tanjent One thing has bothered me for some time about the ... Jul 13 2008, 07:48 AM
dvandorn I can, however, imagine an impactor large enough t... Jul 13 2008, 06:19 PM
JRehling I don't see a hard dividing line between accre... Jul 14 2008, 10:58 PM
Harkeppler The elliptical craters on Mars are not really cent... Jul 14 2008, 11:28 PM
edstrick Peter Schultz <Brown univ, Deep Impact mission,... Jul 15 2008, 11:08 AM
Marz I thought this was an interesting blurb: perhaps ... Nov 1 2008, 06:26 PM
Vultur The concept of an ancient moon that broke up is ve... Nov 3 2008, 01:58 AM
Ron Hobbs Triton? I think there is a consensus that it was o... Nov 3 2008, 04:19 AM
silylene Couldn't another mechanism be that Mars captur... Nov 4 2008, 04:54 PM
PhilCo126 Phobos and Deimos ( Fear & Terror ): http://ww... Dec 5 2008, 04:33 PM
MarcF Martian moon Phobos may have formed by catastrophi... Sep 23 2010, 01:27 PM
lavaphile While very interesting, this is not quite as concl... Oct 1 2010, 09:02 PM
Phil Stooke "The overall reflectivity of Phobos is much l... Oct 1 2010, 09:19 PM
pjam One of the quotes in the Science daily article is ... Jul 6 2011, 05:37 PM
antipode QUOTE "We detected for the first time a type ... Jul 7 2011, 12:14 PM
Gsnorgathon QUOTE (antipode @ Jul 7 2011, 04:14 AM) S... Jul 7 2011, 05:58 PM
Juramike Aren't phyllosilicates also found on comets? ... Jul 7 2011, 12:49 PM
pjam QUOTE (Juramike @ Jul 7 2011, 10:19 AM) A... Jul 12 2011, 03:08 AM
ElkGroveDan Phyllosilicates are very popular these days. Last... Jul 7 2011, 02:58 PM
Mr Valiant Obviously, don't know much, but yeah, I'm ... Jul 13 2011, 07:55 AM
Chmee I had a thought today about a possible method of e... Mar 27 2013, 02:29 AM
tasp Running time backwards we see Phobos spiraling bac... Mar 27 2013, 04:19 AM
Chmee QUOTE (tasp @ Mar 27 2013, 12:19 AM) Runn... Mar 27 2013, 05:46 PM
djellison QUOTE (Chmee @ Mar 27 2013, 09:46 AM) I w... Mar 27 2013, 08:38 PM
dvandorn The problem is that simply reversing the orbit dyn... Mar 27 2013, 04:23 AM
Phil Stooke The real problem here is that these kinds of orbit... Mar 27 2013, 08:41 PM
Chmee In the debate over the origin of Phobos and Deimos... Apr 28 2013, 07:18 PM![]() ![]() |
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 20th June 2013 - 11:21 AM |
|
RULES AND GUIDELINES Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting. IMAGE COPYRIGHT |
OPINIONS AND MODERATION Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators. |
SUPPORT THE FORUM Unmannedspaceflight.com is a project of the Planetary Society and is funded by donations from visitors and members. Help keep this forum up and running by contributing here. |
|