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Show me the water, Water geysers vs. ice sublimation
vexgizmo
post Apr 6 2006, 02:24 PM
Post #1


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OK, it's time to have it out. Is Enceladus really spewing water, or are its fractures effectively sublimating warm ice like a comet?

Have a careful read of the Enceladus Science papers (specifically Porco et al vs. Spencer et al.) and you will see that the evidence for water is equivocal, and arguably circular. The prime piece of evidence for liquid water (Porco et al) is the inferred high ice/vapor ratio of the plume (top of p. 1398). This is inferred from scattering models and assumptions of plume particle sizes and argued unlikelihood of particle entrainment in sublimating gas (explained briefly in their note 30, and into p. 1399). Should we hang our conclusions, exploration strategies, and hopes for life on moels of ice/vapor ratio, particle size assumptions, and inferred difficulty of entraining particles in sublimated gas?

Instead (Spencer et al), the fractures of Enceladus may simply expose warm (T ~ 180K) ice which sublimates like a comet (p. 1405).

Show me the water.
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Posts in this topic
- vexgizmo   Show me the water   Apr 6 2006, 02:24 PM
- - ugordan   To be fair, isn't the evidence of water on Eur...   Apr 6 2006, 02:27 PM
|- - The Messenger   [quote name=QUOTE REMOVED - un-needed when replyin...   Apr 6 2006, 02:54 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Apr 6 2006, 03:54 ...   Apr 6 2006, 03:38 PM
- - djellison   Look at the phase diagram of water http://images...   Apr 6 2006, 03:23 PM
|- - vexgizmo   QUOTE (djellison @ Apr 6 2006, 09:23 AM) ...   Apr 6 2006, 03:29 PM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (djellison @ Apr 6 2006, 09:23 AM) ...   Apr 6 2006, 04:49 PM
- - volcanopele   Getting back to Enceladus, the case for liquid wat...   Apr 6 2006, 05:18 PM
- - scalbers   Or would you want to more "liquidly" mak...   Apr 6 2006, 05:42 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (scalbers @ Apr 6 2006, 10:42 AM) I...   Apr 10 2006, 05:22 PM
- - hendric   How much of a difference in plume velocity would t...   Apr 7 2006, 02:40 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   Even if it is "only" ice sublimating lik...   Apr 7 2006, 07:46 AM
|- - tty   QUOTE (hendric @ Apr 7 2006, 04:40 AM) Co...   Apr 7 2006, 06:45 PM
- - The Messenger   Spawling occurs in nozzle throats when there is di...   Apr 7 2006, 05:31 PM
- - edstrick   Considering geysers vs sublimating ice on Enchilad...   Apr 8 2006, 09:58 AM
|- - Richard Trigaux   QUOTE (edstrick @ Apr 8 2006, 09:58 AM) ....   Apr 8 2006, 01:19 PM
|- - tty   QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Apr 8 2006, 03:1...   Apr 8 2006, 04:46 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (vexgizmo @ Apr 6 2006, 02:24 PM) O...   Apr 12 2006, 10:38 PM
|- - vexgizmo   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 12 2006, 04:38 P...   Apr 16 2006, 06:15 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   While we're on the subject of the plume: Hunte...   Apr 12 2006, 11:17 PM
- - BruceMoomaw   Raul Baragiola confirms that Frank Crary and I mis...   Apr 16 2006, 01:03 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 15 2006, 07:03 P...   Apr 16 2006, 01:48 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   All I've got on that is so far is what he says...   Apr 16 2006, 03:53 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (BruceMoomaw @ Apr 15 2006, 09:53 P...   Apr 16 2006, 05:54 AM
- - edstrick   Saturn has nowhere near the hellish radiation belt...   Apr 16 2006, 09:20 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Well, yeah, but my point was that Baragiola doesn...   Apr 16 2006, 11:15 PM
|- - JRehling   I'll re-mention my mega-strategy for a Europa ...   Apr 17 2006, 05:01 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   The 'Europa Suite' mission could use a spa...   Apr 17 2006, 05:51 PM
|- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (JRehling @ Apr 17 2006, 05:01 PM) ...   Apr 17 2006, 07:02 PM
- - dvandorn   There is, however, a good reason for a lander to h...   Apr 18 2006, 06:15 AM
|- - Bob Shaw   other Doug: If there *had* been descent imaging o...   Apr 18 2006, 01:01 PM
|- - BruceMoomaw   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Apr 18 2006, 06:15 AM) ...   Apr 18 2006, 09:38 PM
- - djellison   Problem with DIMES was that they downsampled it qu...   Apr 18 2006, 07:14 AM
- - edstrick   Mariner Mars 71 had relatively poor stability, and...   Apr 19 2006, 08:18 AM
- - BruceMoomaw   Interesting. Boeing proposed a Martian version of...   Apr 19 2006, 03:02 PM


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