[X] My Assistant

[imipak]

Here's an animated stereo image I made from Viccy's MOC images, kind of like a smooth flicker-GIF:

What an extraordinary image - thanks, Pando! Unless the effect produced by this anaglyph is completely misleading, I can't see any way into VC - none that would leave Oppy in working order at the bottom, anyway. Personally I couldn't see much evidence of actual change in previous images pairs, but in this image there are clearly several areas where more than the lighting has changed. The sides appear effectively sheer drops in most places.

[Bill Harris]

So Victoria is named after Magellan's ship? And here I have been thinking that it was named after the British Queen. Oh well...

I wouldn't fret about _how_ Oppy will enter Victoria at this point in time. A boots-on-the-ground inspection will be needed to determine that; at any rate, I suspect that Oppy will be doing 360* round-the-rim survey with Pancam panoramas before going inside for a close-up survey. I'll also suspect that the rim will generally be like the Mogollon Rim at Erebus: the gently draping evaporite over the darker units, but with steeper/taller bluffs and with several entryways.

Great imagery and thoughts; we'll be there 'fore we know it.

--Bill

[djellison]

All the craters at Meridiani are named after vessels of exploration.

Fram was a tender to the Endurance. Some of them are spacecraft vessels ( Eagle, Viking, Voyager, Vostok )

Doug

[Shaka]

Great idea Phil, makes perfect sense. Looks like a Googling session is in order...

Lots to work with just there, and I'm sure members more familiar with Magellan's voyages than I will have even more beautiful names to decorate our map with...

I'm sure Ustrax can help out here. With all due respects to Senhor Magellan, I would make the following humble suggestion, hoping that it might appeal to JPL, if not UMSF..
Assuming that we reach it, and it is a crater, and we can take a panorama of it for her to show to her grandchildren:
I would anticipate that we will, if possible, try to circle at least half the rim to get a thorough view of the Victoria interior before we enter. Thus it could well be that Sofi's crater will be close to the point where we enter Victoria. Perhaps there will also be some preference for the south, north-facing, upwind (?), less-sandy (?) crater wall? I wouldn't be surprised, at this early juncture, if the T3 area became one of the first study sites.
Speculation is loads of fun.

[algorimancer]

So Victoria is named after Magellan's ship? And here I have been thinking that it was named after the British Queen. Oh well...

I wouldn't fret about _how_ Oppy will enter Victoria at this point in time. A boots-on-the-ground inspection will be needed to determine that; at any rate, I suspect that Oppy will be doing 360* round-the-rim survey with Pancam panoramas before going inside for a close-up survey. I'll also suspect that the rim will generally be like the Mogollon Rim at Erebus: the gently draping evaporite over the darker units, but with steeper/taller bluffs and with several entryways.
--Bill

I also thought it was named after the "virgin queen", and was hoping that the name wouldn't turn-out to be prophetic as regards being able to get into the crater (tiptoeing around political correctness here...). We'll find out soon enough

[djellison]

Of course, a 750M wide crater is 2.3km around - given that one would hope to drive perhaps 10-30m from the rim, a 'lap' of Victoria could be as much 2.4, 2.5 km. That's a lot more driving to be asking of a tired little rover. I'd be happier with a quarter-lap of the crater to produce a high resolution DEM of the crater for planning, and then entry somewhere on the Northern rim around late spring

Doug

[BEHSTeacher]

Did somebody mention the dark streaks heading N from VC were (reletively) new features?
I have a hypothesis about their origin...
Looking at the beautiful 3D view at http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2006/01/24/ I can see a cliff between V2 and V3 descending into the crater. About halfway down the soil abruptly turns dark, perhaps newly exposed soil. The debris in the crater seems devoid of large rocks or boulders so the sides may not be more compressed clay-like soil that is prone to landslides. The dark plumes may be the resulting dust cloud released by a recent slide carried off to the north by the prevalent wind. A slightly older slide might the gully as mentioned before - the dark plume is not as dark having brightened because of sunlight exposure.

I'm a longtime lurker and enthousiastic about this mission - so don't be too harsh in tearing this idea apart.

[Dyche Mullins]

I also thought it was named after the "virgin queen", and was hoping that the name wouldn't turn-out to be prophetic as regards being able to get into the crater (tiptoeing around political correctness here...). We'll find out soon enough

You are thinking of Elizabeth. Victoria had 9 kids and so while she may have been a prude she was not so much of a virgin. So, if the name does turn out to be prophetic, we can expect at least nine productive incursions.

[Phil Stooke]

algorimancer said "I also thought it was named after the "virgin queen"".

Queen Victoria may have looked like a bad-tempered old prune but she was no virgin! Elizabeth I was the virgin queen... so-called.

Doug said "Fram was a tender to the Endurance."

Fram was used by Nansen in the Arctic and by Amundsen in the Antarctic, several years before Shackleton's expedition in the Endurance. I suppose it's not impossible that Fram was used as a tender for Endurance, but that's hardly its claim to fame.

Phil

[Bill Harris]

>That's a lot more driving to be asking of a tired little rover.

Ah, we have become so accustomed to Oppy attaining the unattainable that a 2.5km journey around the crater is not unthinkable. But you're correct, that would be more a publicity stunt and less good science.

A quarter lap, and then down the rabbit hole makse more sense.

I think that the dark northern streaks are simply aeolian/windblown deposits of the dark lower unit, just as there is the usual light-toned "evaporite" streak SE of most craters. The mystery why the change in wind direction (likely seasonal) and why these non-typical dark streaks at this crater.

We'll figure it out, eventually.

--Bill

[ElkGroveDan]

So Victoria is named after Magellan's ship? And here I have been thinking that it was named after the British Queen.

So did I.
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.p...indpost&p=50768

[CosmicRocker]

This was a good topic to start; so thanks to Stu for that, and for the nice, simulated view of VC. Thanks also to everyone else for their contributions.

Regarding the dark streaks on the north side, I think they are likely caused by light colored dust being eroded by wind vortices, created by the topographic expression of the north rim. See how the lines converge to points on that edge. That makes me think that those vertices would be good locations for Opportunity to park for a while to get a good solar panel cleaning.

[djellison]

Fram was used by Nansen in the Arctic and by Amundsen in the Antarctic,

Quite right - not quite sure where I got the tender idea into my head.

Doug

[Stu]

nine productive incursions

Aaah, and they say romance is dead...!

Loving how this discussion is going, some great theories and speculation. I agree that a complete lap of the crater is almost certainly too much to ask for, as Doug pointed out. So, the first big question is, I guess, which direction do we head in after our first peek over the edge? I suppose that will be determined mainly by the appearance, appeal and scientific value of the features we see from our "First Look" location, but if you were in charge, which way would you go - east, to explore the sources of the dark plumes we see streaking away from the crater's edge, and beyond that to the two major terraces T1 and T2, or west, to go look at V4, the widest and most eroded of the plume sources, and beyond that, terrace T5, which appears to have some secondary terraces and layers within it..?

From what I've seen so far, detailed views of the northern rim features will only be obtained from the eastern or western sides, which is still quite a drive as Doug says. Just a shame that the south side isn't the north side, then we would have a grandstand panoramic sweeping view of all those lovely tall features on the northern rim... oh well...

Personally, I think I'd like to see Oppy head east, first to take a look at the plumes and one of their sources, then continue on to T1, because from there I reckon she'd 1) have a spectacular view of the dune field down below and the crater edge from T4 right round to V2 - a jaw-dropping panorama if ever there was one! - and 2) it would take her closer to an access point into the crater itself; heading west will take her away from any access points.

Again, personally, I'm dying to find out what lurks in the shadows between T5 and V1... what dramatic ledges, rockfalls and scree sprays are there just waiting to be photographed?

Shaka: nice idea about Sofi's Crater. I hope NASA is planning some way to immortalise her at one of the landing sites, it would only be fair, right?

Cosmic Rocker: nice idea about the "dark streaks" on the surface actually being areas cleaned of surface dust by the wind. After all, we see dust devils leaving dark scoured trails behind them, so there might be something worth looking at here, good call.

I can see I'm going to have to go edit my story to take account of all these excellent ideas.

[Bob Shaw]

Quite right - not quite sure where I got the tender idea into my head.

Doug

Doug:

Wasn't it because of the Elvis Presley song about the Scottish pigeon pie?

Bob Shaw