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Soviet Luna Missions
Guest_DonPMitchell_*
post May 7 2006, 02:45 AM
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Very cool. Where did you find a good picture of frame 35?

I'm still trying to pry more Luna-3 pictures loose. To be honest, they are probably sitting in a drawer, scratched up, covered with dust. But I'm told the magnetic tape still exists, and there is a machine at IKI that can read it. I'm pressing some folks to do that.


I made this figure for my book, just to give people a reference for what they are looking at in the Luna-3 images. The clementine image is a texture-mapped sphere.

[attachment=5474:attachment]

So I guess this means the American Anti-Communist League was wrong. The Russians didn't fake the pictures.
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gndonald
post May 7 2006, 06:05 AM
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QUOTE (4th rock from the sun @ May 6 2006, 09:48 AM) *
[attachment=5460:attachment]

Finally I've finished one of my projects: merging various Luna 3 images to reduce noise, cover all of the moon's disk and replace missing data areas.

This is my final result and not that bad in my opinion ;-)
Much of the image resolution was lost in the noise, but the picture's dynamic range was recovered.


You've done a magnificient job with that image, any plans to do the same thing with the Zond 3 far-side photos?
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4th rock from th...
post May 7 2006, 11:05 AM
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QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ May 7 2006, 03:45 AM) *
Very cool. Where did you find a good picture of frame 35?


Hum... I didn't !!!! I just used the clean parts from several frames to create the mosaic.

Here's what you get using the odd number frames. Photoshop does help here ;-)

Attached Image


QUOTE (gndonald @ May 7 2006, 07:05 AM) *
You've done a magnificient job with that image, any plans to do the same thing with the Zond 3 far-side photos?


I'm at (slow) work with those, but it's complicated because of spacecraft motion. Some kind of image projection will be needed to create a full mosaic.

So far, I've got this :-) from frames 3, 5 and 7:

Attached Image


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Phil Stooke
post May 7 2006, 08:19 PM
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Here is a mosaic of Zond 3 images which I made a while ago. The early images over Oceanus Procelarum can't be fitted to the later ones. I apologise for the image size and quality, but I'm away from home and don't have my usual stuff with me.

Phil

Attached Image


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tedstryk
post May 7 2006, 10:37 PM
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Very impressive.

This Zond image is another favorite of mine from the Soviet archive.



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Guest_DonPMitchell_*
post May 9 2006, 10:02 AM
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QUOTE (4th rock from the sun @ May 7 2006, 04:05 AM) *
Hum... I didn't !!!! I just used the clean parts from several frames to create the mosaic.


Oh wait, my mistake. I was thinking you used frame 32 for some reason.

I would love to get the signal off the Luna-3 tapes. They reprocessed some of them in 1965, and those images display considerably better quality.

[attachment=5504:attachment] [attachment=5505:attachment]
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Guest_DonPMitchell_*
post May 9 2006, 10:12 AM
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QUOTE (tedstryk @ May 7 2006, 03:37 PM) *
Very impressive.

This Zond image is another favorite of mine from the Soviet archive.


I was stunned when I saw the Zond-8 images. They are comparable to the Apollo photos in quality. They've scanned the original film at very high resolution. I've got all of them on my catalog site, but at 1/4 resolution to give media3.net a break.
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tedstryk
post May 9 2006, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ May 9 2006, 10:12 AM) *
I was stunned when I saw the Zond-8 images. They are comparable to the Apollo photos in quality. They've scanned the original film at very high resolution. I've got all of them on my catalog site, but at 1/4 resolution to give media3.net a break.


They are impressive. I have an archived that I may get around to scanning one of these years. I wonder if there are similar versions of the Zond 6 and 7 images, despite the fact that the Zond 6 shots have suffered greatly.


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4th rock from th...
post May 9 2006, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ May 9 2006, 11:02 AM) *
Oh wait, my mistake. I was thinking you used frame 32 for some reason.

I would love to get the signal off the Luna-3 tapes. They reprocessed some of them in 1965, and those images display considerably better quality.


Yes, that would be great. There is software that decodes fax images using a PC's soundboard. I've tired it on HF Fax transmissions, using a SW radio connected to the PC and it works.

So it would be as "simple" as converting the Luna 3 tapes to MP3 format. My guess is that the image information uses "regular sound" frequencies, so a simple convertion to MP3 would do.


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RJG
post May 9 2006, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (4th rock from the sun @ May 9 2006, 01:55 PM) *
So it would be as "simple" as converting the Luna 3 tapes to MP3 format. My guess is that the image information uses "regular sound" frequencies, so a simple convertion to MP3 would do.


Be careful!

MP3 is a lossy compression technique using various methods to determine what to loose -including psychoacoustics. Obviously, if the audio signal is to be demodulated as a visual image, these losses may well manifest themselves as visible artifacts.

You would be better to convert to WAV which doesn't involve compression. Still easy to do but without leading to imperfections in the final image.

Rob
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4th rock from th...
post May 9 2006, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE (RJG @ May 9 2006, 08:54 PM) *
MP3 is a lossy compression technique using various methods to determine what to loose -including psychoacoustics.


Yes, that is true, but I was just thinking of a quick way to share such data (given that it even exists) and to try to decode it. Anyway, given the limited amount of information in such a transmission, I don't think that MP3 would degrade it much.

Anyway, some links with some info on HF-Fax that might be interesting at least to understand the basics of analog image transmission, as used on the Luna images.

http://www.hffax.de/html/live_charts.html
http://www.hffax.de/html/hf-fax.html


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Guest_DonPMitchell_*
post May 10 2006, 12:32 AM
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QUOTE (4th rock from the sun @ May 9 2006, 03:34 PM) *
Yes, that is true, but I was just thinking of a quick way to share such data (given that it even exists) and to try to decode it. Anyway, given the limited amount of information in such a transmission, I don't think that MP3 would degrade it much.

Anyway, some links with some info on HF-Fax that might be interesting at least to understand the basics of analog image transmission, as used on the Luna images.

http://www.hffax.de/html/live_charts.html
http://www.hffax.de/html/hf-fax.html


Luna-3 images were FM video on a 25 kHz subcarrier. I think you'd want to get uncompressed WAV format, and then party on that with some good digital filters, like a high quality FM demodulator to start with.
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ljk4-1
post May 10 2006, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ May 9 2006, 08:32 PM) *
Luna-3 images were FM video on a 25 kHz subcarrier. I think you'd want to get uncompressed WAV format, and then party on that with some good digital filters, like a high quality FM demodulator to start with.


Sven Grahn has these pages on his Web site regarding Luna 3 and its frequencies:

http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/luna3/Luna3story.html

http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/radioind/Luna3b...Luna3beeps.html

http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/luna3/Yefimov.html

http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/radioind/lunaradi/lunaradi.htm


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Guest_DonPMitchell_*
post May 10 2006, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ May 10 2006, 04:32 AM) *


Sven does nice work. His research into the Jodrell Bank letters has been especially valuable. His estimate of the uplink frequency is in the ballpark -- the actual value was 102 MHz (5/9 times 183.6). That picture I sent him is an antenna from the Saturn system, which I've been told by someone in Russia was used for Luna-3. I'm a little skeptical now about that.
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4th rock from th...
post May 10 2006, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE (ljk4-1 @ May 10 2006, 12:32 PM) *
Sven Grahn has these pages on his Web site regarding Luna 3 and its frequencies:
...


Thanks for the links. I've read them all in detail and there are some interesting informations there:

There were 2 transmission modes, a Slow Mode and a Fast Mode. Total transmission times for a scan line and a complete picture are given, but they are inconsistent!

On the Slow Mode the rate was 1.25s per line with a total transmission time of around 30m. Well, 1000 lines would only take 1250s(~21m) to be transmited, so I think that is the accurate figure.

On the Fast Mode the transmission time is given as 15s for a whole frame, duration of a frame 10s !?!
These numbers don't make much sense. Perhaps a total transmission time of 1.5 minutes at ~0.1 seconds per line are the correct values?


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