My Assistant
Unaffordable and Unsustainable, NASA’s failing Earth-to-orbit Transportation Strategy |
| Guest_DonPMitchell_* |
Jul 25 2006, 04:11 AM
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#1
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The Space Frontier Foundation has gotten a lot of attention from the mainstream press with their latest Whitepaper.
They advocate a more extensive support fo free enterprise and entrepreneurship in the American space program. They suggest that NASA should no longer be allowed to develop and own new launch vehicles, and that CEV and CLV development should be cancelled. They also advise that NASA rely on Altas 5 and Delta 4 rockets, and transfer more funding to the Commercial Orbital Transportation Services program. I cannot find the actual white paper on the SFF website. I don't know if SFF is particularly professional (certainly their gaudy website doesn't look it), but I have to agree with some of their points. |
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Jul 28 2006, 06:51 AM
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
I think it's important to note that private industry *did* build most of the spacecraft and launch vehicles that the U.S. has deployed over the past 50 years. NASA, DoD or some other federal agency (like, for example, NOAA) were the customers who purchased the spacecraft and launch vehicles, and used them.
The difference between the existing paradigm and the one the SFF seems to be urging is that the federal government has provided these private-industry contractors with detailed specifications for these vehicles (a "we design them, you build them" approach), and has also provided high-level program management. But the manufacture and detailed, day-to-day project management has, in most cases, been done by private industry. I think this made more sense in the 1960s, when a man like Max Faget and his band of engineering wizards were capable of designing pretty much every manned spacecraft we ever thought we'd need. But the bureaucracy has overwhelmed the engineering ethos at NASA, and I will grant you that perhaps it's time to distribute the responsibilities for the design work out to the industries who have been making the vehicles all along. Actually, the one area in which this has *not* been the case has been in planetary probes. JPL (with the aid of a number of subcontractors) has actually built a majority of America's lunar and planetary probes, along with a number of other spacecraft. More recently, other NASA centers (such as the APL) have gotten into the act, as well. Building unmanned exploratory spacecraft seems to be something that NASA does best -- at least, I've seen no hue and cry that private industry ought to co-opt that portion of NASA's portfolio... I know it betrays my rather liberal political leanings, but I truly believe that there are some things that governments can do better than private industry -- and that there are many things that *only* governments can do, since private industry (at least in a capitalist society) will only ever do things that have short-term profit potential. Some things really *need* to be done that only have long-term profit potential (or none whatsoever, at least economically), and only governments can do those things effectively. (Heck, only governments will ever even *try* to do those things.) At least, that's my $.02 on the subject... -the other Doug -------------------- “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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DonPMitchell Unaffordable and Unsustainable Jul 25 2006, 04:11 AM
The Messenger QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jul 24 2006, 10:11 ... Jul 25 2006, 01:54 PM
Jim from NSF.com QUOTE (The Messenger @ Jul 25 2006, 09:54... Jul 26 2006, 12:48 AM
David I have an uncomfortable feeling that the questions... Jul 25 2006, 02:09 PM
ugordan This topic definitely sounds like it belongs more ... Jul 25 2006, 02:25 PM
Bjorn Jonsson QUOTE (ugordan @ Jul 25 2006, 02:25 PM) T... Jul 25 2006, 03:35 PM
DonPMitchell As policy, there is good reason to want private en... Jul 25 2006, 10:01 PM
David QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jul 25 2006, 10:01 ... Jul 26 2006, 12:13 AM
The Messenger QUOTE (David @ Jul 25 2006, 06:13 PM) I f... Jul 26 2006, 02:23 AM
Richard Trigaux This discution about comparing the merits of free ... Jul 26 2006, 07:11 AM
ugordan QUOTE (Richard Trigaux @ Jul 26 2006, 08... Jul 26 2006, 08:47 AM
Richard Trigaux Thanks you ugordan for your informations.
Actualy... Jul 26 2006, 09:18 AM
DonPMitchell Increasing the role of private industry in space i... Jul 26 2006, 09:25 AM
Richard Trigaux DonPMitchell, I basically don't agree with you... Jul 26 2006, 11:04 AM
DonPMitchell Well, I did not so much intend to compare socialis... Jul 26 2006, 05:43 PM
David There's no question but that corporations have... Jul 26 2006, 05:53 PM
Richard Trigaux QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jul 26 2006, 05:43 ... Jul 28 2006, 06:17 AM
DonPMitchell I think it depends on what you call space explorat... Jul 26 2006, 09:03 PM
DonPMitchell I've been trying to find a link to the actual ... Jul 27 2006, 07:40 AM
Mariner9 A very interesting white paper. I don't agre... Jul 27 2006, 11:23 PM
The Messenger There has been a lot of atropy in the the US rocke... Jul 28 2006, 04:27 AM
mchan In the launcher industry, governments bring money ... Jul 28 2006, 10:12 AM
DonPMitchell There certainly is a lot of government involvement... Jul 28 2006, 10:37 PM
Stephen QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jul 28 2006, 10:37 ... Jul 31 2006, 11:04 AM
Marz QUOTE (Stephen @ Jul 31 2006, 06:04 AM) (... Jul 31 2006, 02:42 PM
DonPMitchell If space is limited to academic science experiment... Jul 31 2006, 06:42 PM
Jim from NSF.com QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jul 31 2006, 02:42 ... Aug 1 2006, 11:52 AM
Stephen QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Jul 31 2006, 06:42 ... Aug 2 2006, 11:17 AM
Mariner9 I've felt for years that if you really want to... Jul 29 2006, 03:31 PM
David QUOTE (Mariner9 @ Jul 29 2006, 03:31 PM) ... Jul 29 2006, 03:42 PM
Analyst Criticising the ISS and the Shuttle as being borin... Aug 1 2006, 11:26 AM
dvandorn And, in defense of ISS, I will just say that ISS i... Aug 1 2006, 08:32 PM
djellison I think there could have been better, cheaper, fas... Aug 1 2006, 08:39 PM
dvandorn Oh, I don't disagree, Doug. There probably ar... Aug 1 2006, 08:51 PM
helvick QUOTE (dvandorn @ Aug 1 2006, 09:51 PM) H... Aug 1 2006, 09:47 PM
DonPMitchell I certainly don't want to see NASA stop fundin... Aug 1 2006, 10:27 PM
Stephen QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Aug 1 2006, 10:27 P... Aug 2 2006, 08:49 AM
The Messenger QUOTE (Stephen @ Aug 2 2006, 02:49 AM) I ... Aug 2 2006, 02:22 PM
DonPMitchell Precisely, the commercial satellite business is pr... Aug 2 2006, 05:27 PM
David QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Aug 2 2006, 05:27 P... Aug 3 2006, 12:20 AM
DonPMitchell QUOTE (David @ Aug 2 2006, 05:20 PM) I ca... Aug 3 2006, 12:59 AM
Analyst QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Aug 2 2006, 05:27 P... Aug 2 2006, 06:50 PM
RNeuhaus QUOTE (Analyst @ Aug 2 2006, 01:50 PM) If... Aug 2 2006, 07:00 PM
DonPMitchell QUOTE (Analyst @ Aug 2 2006, 11:50 AM) If... Aug 3 2006, 03:19 AM
Jim from NSF.com QUOTE (Analyst @ Aug 2 2006, 02:50 PM) If... Aug 3 2006, 04:34 AM
remcook then why do the russians launch polar satellites f... Aug 2 2006, 07:38 PM
Jim from NSF.com QUOTE (remcook @ Aug 2 2006, 03:38 PM) th... Aug 3 2006, 04:26 AM
djellison Trajectory purposes I would have thought - same re... Aug 2 2006, 08:29 PM
remcook I believe the vandenberg launch option is because ... Aug 2 2006, 09:16 PM
DonPMitchell The most efficient orbital launch is made eastward... Aug 2 2006, 10:30 PM
Analyst Interesting, Jim. I should be more careful with ab... Aug 3 2006, 06:30 AM
The Messenger QUOTE (Analyst @ Aug 3 2006, 12:30 AM) In... Aug 3 2006, 08:51 PM
Jim from NSF.com QUOTE (Analyst @ Aug 3 2006, 02:30 AM) In... Aug 4 2006, 12:50 AM
Analyst QUOTE (The Messenger @ Aug 3 2006, 08:51 ... Aug 4 2006, 07:35 AM
Jim from NSF.com By default, a launch going due east (90 degrees az... Aug 4 2006, 01:00 PM
DonPMitchell The perigee of the orbit will be approximately whe... Aug 4 2006, 07:27 PM
tty The ideal launch site should be:
1. On the Equato... Aug 4 2006, 07:51 PM
DonPMitchell Some of these effects are more important than othe... Aug 5 2006, 09:06 AM
djellison QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Aug 5 2006, 10:06 A... Aug 5 2006, 01:56 PM
tty QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Aug 5 2006, 11:06 A... Aug 5 2006, 06:57 PM
RNeuhaus QUOTE (tty @ Aug 5 2006, 01:57 PM) I was ... Aug 5 2006, 07:56 PM
dilo QUOTE (RNeuhaus @ Aug 5 2006, 07:56 PM) T... Aug 5 2006, 08:57 PM
DonPMitchell Ah, right you are tty, lower air pressure is an ad... Aug 5 2006, 08:41 PM
dvandorn QUOTE (DonPMitchell @ Aug 5 2006, 03:41 P... Aug 6 2006, 12:02 PM
The Messenger "Toxic" fuels do not necessarily yield h... Aug 6 2006, 04:21 PM
DonPMitchell
UDMH is both toxic and carcinogenic. It's ... Aug 7 2006, 03:53 AM
DonPMitchell Looks like NASA has decided to put some serious mo... Aug 19 2006, 08:30 PM
Littlebit http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.nl.html?pid=23... Feb 5 2007, 07:22 PM
peter59 NASA has decided to end its use of the Boeing Delt... Sep 27 2007, 05:09 PM
djellison http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showt... Sep 27 2007, 05:21 PM![]() ![]() |
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