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Titan's "Lake District", A closer look at the "lakes"
Stu
post Jul 26 2006, 01:59 PM
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With an hour or so to kill before heading out to work I thought I'd have a play about with the images of the "lakes". Having read that it might be possible to enhance these or future images to bring out more details - maybe even waves - I just started playing about with contrast and brightness, seeing what popped out... and just doing that shows detail and some features within the "lakes" which I'm interested in people's comments on.

Titan lake

Now, before anyone tells me off for my "playing about" and points out, rightly, that you can't just take these raw images and pull info out without a LOT of work, please bear in mind I KNOW all that, okay? smile.gif I'm no Nix or Nirgal or Horton, and I'm not suggesting this means anything, I'm just curious what I might have seen. I know the features might just be imaging artefacts, but... oh, just take a look and see what you think. I'm just pushing the ball down the hill here, not making any claims. I would be interested to hear what others think tho. smile.gif

Sticking my neck out here, to me it looks like the "drainage channel" on the lower right hand side actually continues into the "lake" for quite a way, maybe even flowing beneath an "island" of some sort. Other things look like they're in there too, but I'm just wondering if the "lake" is actually very shallow and we can see channels on its floor...

Features?

...but heck, what do I know... smile.gif


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Guest_Richard Trigaux_*
post Jul 26 2006, 10:03 PM
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The electromagnetic properties of hydrocarbons (at ambient temp, but at low temp it must not be very different) are about 2-3 for epsilon zero, and 1 for mu zero. I don't remember the formula to derive the wave velocity in this, but it may be a square root, giving a velocity in the 200 000km/s, which is also the velocity in cables insulated with materials like polyethylene. This makes an optical refraction ration about that of special glass like crystal. This is not very high, and we can assume that, when the radar wave meets a methane-ethane surface, a fairly part of it penetrates into the liquid, provided that the surface is calm, with no waves, probably a common condition on Titan. (Eventually a patch appearing dark one day and clearer another time would be a tell tale evidence of waves, and thus of liquid). After, the radar wave can penetrate deeply into the liquid, which probably contains little particules to absorb it. If it contains, the patch will appear much darker. After, the reflection on the bottom gives an image of it, that the radar can get. We can imagine the result with a lagoon and no waves: features on the bottom are visible at depths of more than 10m. And methane is much more transparent to radar waves (similar bodies like polyethylene are used as insulators in high frequency cables, and even as wave guides).

So we can figure that methane lakes would appear as darker patches. But Huygens seemingly landed into one such patch, and it was not liquid. So it is difficult to infer that all dark patches are liquid.

Seeing the bottom of lakes is likely too. deep lakes should appear completely black.

About the geometric features on the image, they are very difficult to interpret. They more or less ressembgle features seen on earth wet polar regions, where, by some process, repeated frost and thaw create many circular lakes. But this interpretation don't hold much on Titan. This region indeed look like a swamp, and, as in certain Earth swamps, we observe many sub-circular features which could be mud diapirs.
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Bjorn Jonsson
post Jul 27 2006, 12:42 AM
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Interestingly, extreme processing in an attempt to reveal details within the dark areas ('lakes') reveals that they appear different:

Attached Image

This is the big lake previously discussed. Some details are visible, for example I'm sure the 'channel' extending from the lake's lower right and into its central area is a real feature. Compare this with the following:

Attached Image

This is the fairly big 'lake' in the upper left corner of the original T16 swath. Interestingly, no details are visible within this lake. It may also be of interest that this lake appears a bit darker than the big one in the unprocessed original image. From the discussion above this could mean it is deeper (if this is a lake), wetter/smoother/more muddy (if this is not a lake) or this could be a processing artifact and not a real difference.

These images were smoothed a bit with a median filter, then greatly sharpened and then smoothed a bit with a median filter.

QUOTE (um3k @ Jul 26 2006, 02:29 PM) *
Here's my version of the image. The vertical stripes, which are imaging artifacts, have been removed by using a Fourier transform.

I would be very interested in knowing which software you used to get rid of the stripes with a Fourier transform. The Cassini ISS images contain noise (stripes) which is hard to get rid of and annoying in some cases.

Finally I should note that I'm attaching these images in PNG format and not JPG. PNG files are sometimes smaller than decent/high quality JPG files for high-contrast, high-frequency scenes like these. Also they are losslessly compressed, unlike JPGs.
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Posts in this topic
- Stu   Titan's "Lake District"   Jul 26 2006, 01:59 PM
- - ustrax   Well...It looks like an abyss to me... Edite...   Jul 26 2006, 02:05 PM
- - climber   QUOTE (Stu @ Jul 26 2006, 03:59 PM) Stick...   Jul 26 2006, 02:09 PM
- - um3k   Here's my version of the image. The vertical s...   Jul 26 2006, 02:29 PM
- - Phil Stooke   I agree with stu - these are not artifacts. Check...   Jul 26 2006, 02:30 PM
|- - paulanderson   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jul 26 2006, 07:30 A...   Jul 26 2006, 04:00 PM
|- - ElkGroveDan   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jul 26 2006, 06:30 A...   Jul 26 2006, 08:37 PM
- - Stu   VERY nice Um! Thanks for that. Love the deta...   Jul 26 2006, 02:32 PM
|- - JRehling   I'd like to see a polar cartographic projectio...   Jul 26 2006, 02:58 PM
- - Sunspot   I always assumed the black kidney bean shaped feat...   Jul 26 2006, 03:04 PM
- - MarcF   The whole region looks like a big methane marsh wi...   Jul 26 2006, 03:37 PM
- - elakdawalla   Here's an example of a dried-up lake. I was t...   Jul 26 2006, 04:13 PM
|- - paulanderson   Very good, thanks for this, Emily. And excellent a...   Jul 26 2006, 04:48 PM
- - David   My impression now is that Titan has some but not a...   Jul 26 2006, 04:50 PM
- - Phil Stooke   This version of the new image is a bit easier to i...   Jul 26 2006, 05:27 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jul 26 2006, 07:27 A...   Jul 26 2006, 05:29 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jul 26 2006, 05:27 P...   Jul 26 2006, 05:34 PM
- - Matt   It looks to me as though much of the detail within...   Jul 26 2006, 06:24 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (Matt @ Jul 26 2006, 11:24 AM) It l...   Jul 26 2006, 07:27 PM
- - tty   Might not the radar penetrate to some extent in li...   Jul 26 2006, 07:59 PM
- - hendric   What's up with that lake in the middle of the ...   Jul 26 2006, 08:33 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (hendric @ Jul 26 2006, 08:33 PM) A...   Jul 26 2006, 09:03 PM
- - Phil Stooke   I meant the specific dark spot in that illustratio...   Jul 26 2006, 08:45 PM
- - Betelgeuze   I added bump maps made with the original image, to...   Jul 26 2006, 08:52 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (Betelgeuze @ Jul 26 2006, 08:52 PM...   Jul 26 2006, 08:58 PM
|- - Betelgeuze   QUOTE (David @ Jul 26 2006, 10:58 PM) Wha...   Jul 26 2006, 09:04 PM
- - Richard Trigaux   The electromagnetic properties of hydrocarbons (at...   Jul 26 2006, 10:03 PM
|- - Bjorn Jonsson   Interestingly, extreme processing in an attempt to...   Jul 27 2006, 12:42 AM
|- - um3k   QUOTE (Bjorn Jonsson @ Jul 26 2006, 08:42...   Jul 27 2006, 12:51 AM
- - Stu   Great discussion guys, enjoying it Bit more pl...   Jul 27 2006, 05:08 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (Stu @ Jul 27 2006, 10:08 AM) Great...   Jul 27 2006, 05:18 PM
- - Stu   Ionian eh..? Yep, can see that now you point it ou...   Jul 27 2006, 05:23 PM
- - volcanopele   I was thinking more of some of the other paterae i...   Jul 27 2006, 05:36 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Jul 27 2006, 10:36 A...   Jul 27 2006, 05:45 PM
- - tty   To me the landscape looks rather like the "lo...   Jul 27 2006, 06:39 PM
|- - Richard Trigaux   Interesting to note that these rounded shapes were...   Jul 27 2006, 07:07 PM
||- - ustrax   Not a single drop of science accuracy on this: ht...   Jul 28 2006, 10:11 AM
||- - mchan   Then that obviously can't be a lake since it w...   Jul 28 2006, 10:15 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (tty @ Jul 27 2006, 12:39 PM) I sup...   Sep 3 2006, 11:47 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 3 2006, 04:47 ...   Sep 27 2006, 02:06 AM
|- - The Messenger   QUOTE (nprev @ Sep 26 2006, 08:06 PM) Hmm...   Sep 30 2006, 07:55 AM
- - nprev   New high-latitude lakes from T18 radar obs: http:/...   Sep 27 2006, 12:44 AM
- - Matt   We've seen how effective the nitrile-doped rai...   Sep 29 2006, 06:55 PM
- - Sunspot   More lakes: http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia...   Oct 12 2006, 10:46 PM
|- - marsman   QUOTE (Sunspot @ Oct 12 2006, 06:46 PM) M...   Oct 13 2006, 12:17 AM
- - nprev   Stunning is definitely the word...I think this jus...   Oct 13 2006, 04:36 AM
- - OWW   http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA01942 ...   Oct 13 2006, 09:03 AM
|- - ustrax   QUOTE (OWW @ Oct 13 2006, 10:03 AM) http:...   Oct 13 2006, 10:18 AM
||- - ustrax   From http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA0...   Oct 13 2006, 01:31 PM
|- - JRehling   QUOTE (OWW @ Oct 13 2006, 02:03 AM) http:...   Oct 20 2006, 05:02 PM
- - Matt   Nice work!   Oct 13 2006, 09:32 PM
- - MarcF   I'm really impatient to see a mosaic of the T1...   Oct 14 2006, 10:53 AM
- - Julius   I fully agree with;there's a great possiblity ...   Oct 14 2006, 11:36 AM
- - power   hi, has this article http://www.newscientistspace...   Oct 14 2006, 01:27 PM
- - centsworth_II   Wow! This look at Titan's "Great Lake...   Oct 14 2006, 02:51 PM
|- - ustrax   Wow...Can't climb a hill?...Just go around it....   Oct 16 2006, 03:05 PM
|- - ustrax   One more...   Oct 16 2006, 03:36 PM
|- - ustrax   a20...   Oct 17 2006, 08:52 AM
- - stevew   I agree with you. The more I play with the lakes ...   Oct 19 2006, 11:29 PM
- - nprev   Sure would be interesting to monitor these bodies ...   Oct 20 2006, 10:00 PM
- - remcook   Now in press at Icarus: Hydrocarbon lakes on Tita...   Nov 8 2006, 12:11 PM
- - JonClarke   Sorry if this has been discussed before, but how t...   Nov 12 2006, 09:16 PM
- - nprev   Actually, the problem seems more complex than just...   Nov 12 2006, 11:32 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 12 2006, 06:32 PM) Act...   Nov 13 2006, 03:59 PM
|- - JonClarke   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Nov 13 2006, 03:59...   Nov 14 2006, 10:54 AM
- - nprev   New pop-level "summary" article on Cassi...   Nov 16 2006, 02:54 AM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 16 2006, 02:54 AM) Tit...   Nov 16 2006, 12:33 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 16 2006, 02:54 AM) One...   Nov 16 2006, 12:54 PM
|- - tty   QUOTE (ngunn @ Nov 16 2006, 01:54 PM) Als...   Nov 17 2006, 07:30 PM
- - Myran   QUOTE helvick wrote: That's a very good point ...   Nov 17 2006, 06:39 PM
- - Julius   Latest flyby should have determined the compositio...   Nov 20 2006, 01:42 PM
- - volcanopele   QUOTE (Julius @ Nov 20 2006, 06:42 AM) La...   Nov 20 2006, 06:48 PM
- - JRehling   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Nov 20 2006, 10:48 A...   Nov 20 2006, 07:49 PM


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