My Assistant
Titan's "Lake District", A closer look at the "lakes" |
Jul 26 2006, 01:59 PM
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![]() The Poet Dude ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderator Posts: 5551 Joined: 15-March 04 From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK Member No.: 60 |
With an hour or so to kill before heading out to work I thought I'd have a play about with the images of the "lakes". Having read that it might be possible to enhance these or future images to bring out more details - maybe even waves - I just started playing about with contrast and brightness, seeing what popped out... and just doing that shows detail and some features within the "lakes" which I'm interested in people's comments on.
Titan lake Now, before anyone tells me off for my "playing about" and points out, rightly, that you can't just take these raw images and pull info out without a LOT of work, please bear in mind I KNOW all that, okay? Sticking my neck out here, to me it looks like the "drainage channel" on the lower right hand side actually continues into the "lake" for quite a way, maybe even flowing beneath an "island" of some sort. Other things look like they're in there too, but I'm just wondering if the "lake" is actually very shallow and we can see channels on its floor... Features? ...but heck, what do I know... -------------------- |
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| Guest_Richard Trigaux_* |
Jul 26 2006, 10:03 PM
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Guests |
The electromagnetic properties of hydrocarbons (at ambient temp, but at low temp it must not be very different) are about 2-3 for epsilon zero, and 1 for mu zero. I don't remember the formula to derive the wave velocity in this, but it may be a square root, giving a velocity in the 200 000km/s, which is also the velocity in cables insulated with materials like polyethylene. This makes an optical refraction ration about that of special glass like crystal. This is not very high, and we can assume that, when the radar wave meets a methane-ethane surface, a fairly part of it penetrates into the liquid, provided that the surface is calm, with no waves, probably a common condition on Titan. (Eventually a patch appearing dark one day and clearer another time would be a tell tale evidence of waves, and thus of liquid). After, the radar wave can penetrate deeply into the liquid, which probably contains little particules to absorb it. If it contains, the patch will appear much darker. After, the reflection on the bottom gives an image of it, that the radar can get. We can imagine the result with a lagoon and no waves: features on the bottom are visible at depths of more than 10m. And methane is much more transparent to radar waves (similar bodies like polyethylene are used as insulators in high frequency cables, and even as wave guides).
So we can figure that methane lakes would appear as darker patches. But Huygens seemingly landed into one such patch, and it was not liquid. So it is difficult to infer that all dark patches are liquid. Seeing the bottom of lakes is likely too. deep lakes should appear completely black. About the geometric features on the image, they are very difficult to interpret. They more or less ressembgle features seen on earth wet polar regions, where, by some process, repeated frost and thaw create many circular lakes. But this interpretation don't hold much on Titan. This region indeed look like a swamp, and, as in certain Earth swamps, we observe many sub-circular features which could be mud diapirs. |
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Jul 27 2006, 12:42 AM
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![]() IMG to PNG GOD ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Moderator Posts: 2257 Joined: 19-February 04 From: Near fire and ice Member No.: 38 |
Interestingly, extreme processing in an attempt to reveal details within the dark areas ('lakes') reveals that they appear different:
This is the big lake previously discussed. Some details are visible, for example I'm sure the 'channel' extending from the lake's lower right and into its central area is a real feature. Compare this with the following: This is the fairly big 'lake' in the upper left corner of the original T16 swath. Interestingly, no details are visible within this lake. It may also be of interest that this lake appears a bit darker than the big one in the unprocessed original image. From the discussion above this could mean it is deeper (if this is a lake), wetter/smoother/more muddy (if this is not a lake) or this could be a processing artifact and not a real difference. These images were smoothed a bit with a median filter, then greatly sharpened and then smoothed a bit with a median filter. Here's my version of the image. The vertical stripes, which are imaging artifacts, have been removed by using a Fourier transform. I would be very interested in knowing which software you used to get rid of the stripes with a Fourier transform. The Cassini ISS images contain noise (stripes) which is hard to get rid of and annoying in some cases. Finally I should note that I'm attaching these images in PNG format and not JPG. PNG files are sometimes smaller than decent/high quality JPG files for high-contrast, high-frequency scenes like these. Also they are losslessly compressed, unlike JPGs. |
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Stu Titan's "Lake District" Jul 26 2006, 01:59 PM
ustrax Well...It looks like an abyss to me...
Edite... Jul 26 2006, 02:05 PM
climber QUOTE (Stu @ Jul 26 2006, 03:59 PM) Stick... Jul 26 2006, 02:09 PM
um3k Here's my version of the image. The vertical s... Jul 26 2006, 02:29 PM
Phil Stooke I agree with stu - these are not artifacts. Check... Jul 26 2006, 02:30 PM
paulanderson QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jul 26 2006, 07:30 A... Jul 26 2006, 04:00 PM
ElkGroveDan QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jul 26 2006, 06:30 A... Jul 26 2006, 08:37 PM
Stu VERY nice Um! Thanks for that. Love the deta... Jul 26 2006, 02:32 PM
JRehling I'd like to see a polar cartographic projectio... Jul 26 2006, 02:58 PM
Sunspot I always assumed the black kidney bean shaped feat... Jul 26 2006, 03:04 PM
MarcF The whole region looks like a big methane marsh wi... Jul 26 2006, 03:37 PM
elakdawalla Here's an example of a dried-up lake. I was t... Jul 26 2006, 04:13 PM
paulanderson Very good, thanks for this, Emily. And excellent a... Jul 26 2006, 04:48 PM
David My impression now is that Titan has some but not a... Jul 26 2006, 04:50 PM
Phil Stooke This version of the new image is a bit easier to i... Jul 26 2006, 05:27 PM
AlexBlackwell QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jul 26 2006, 07:27 A... Jul 26 2006, 05:29 PM
David QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Jul 26 2006, 05:27 P... Jul 26 2006, 05:34 PM
Matt It looks to me as though much of the detail within... Jul 26 2006, 06:24 PM
JRehling QUOTE (Matt @ Jul 26 2006, 11:24 AM) It l... Jul 26 2006, 07:27 PM
tty Might not the radar penetrate to some extent in li... Jul 26 2006, 07:59 PM
hendric What's up with that lake in the middle of the ... Jul 26 2006, 08:33 PM
David QUOTE (hendric @ Jul 26 2006, 08:33 PM) A... Jul 26 2006, 09:03 PM
Phil Stooke I meant the specific dark spot in that illustratio... Jul 26 2006, 08:45 PM
Betelgeuze I added bump maps made with the original image, to... Jul 26 2006, 08:52 PM
David QUOTE (Betelgeuze @ Jul 26 2006, 08:52 PM... Jul 26 2006, 08:58 PM
Betelgeuze QUOTE (David @ Jul 26 2006, 10:58 PM) Wha... Jul 26 2006, 09:04 PM
um3k QUOTE (Bjorn Jonsson @ Jul 26 2006, 08:42... Jul 27 2006, 12:51 AM
Stu Great discussion guys, enjoying it
Bit more pl... Jul 27 2006, 05:08 PM
volcanopele QUOTE (Stu @ Jul 27 2006, 10:08 AM) Great... Jul 27 2006, 05:18 PM
Stu Ionian eh..? Yep, can see that now you point it ou... Jul 27 2006, 05:23 PM
volcanopele I was thinking more of some of the other paterae i... Jul 27 2006, 05:36 PM
JRehling QUOTE (volcanopele @ Jul 27 2006, 10:36 A... Jul 27 2006, 05:45 PM
tty To me the landscape looks rather like the "lo... Jul 27 2006, 06:39 PM
Richard Trigaux Interesting to note that these rounded shapes were... Jul 27 2006, 07:07 PM

ustrax Not a single drop of science accuracy on this:
ht... Jul 28 2006, 10:11 AM

mchan Then that obviously can't be a lake since it w... Jul 28 2006, 10:15 AM
The Messenger QUOTE (tty @ Jul 27 2006, 12:39 PM) I sup... Sep 3 2006, 11:47 PM
nprev QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 3 2006, 04:47 ... Sep 27 2006, 02:06 AM
The Messenger QUOTE (nprev @ Sep 26 2006, 08:06 PM) Hmm... Sep 30 2006, 07:55 AM
nprev New high-latitude lakes from T18 radar obs: http:/... Sep 27 2006, 12:44 AM
Matt We've seen how effective the nitrile-doped rai... Sep 29 2006, 06:55 PM
Sunspot More lakes:
http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia... Oct 12 2006, 10:46 PM
marsman QUOTE (Sunspot @ Oct 12 2006, 06:46 PM) M... Oct 13 2006, 12:17 AM
nprev Stunning is definitely the word...I think this jus... Oct 13 2006, 04:36 AM
OWW http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA01942
... Oct 13 2006, 09:03 AM
ustrax QUOTE (OWW @ Oct 13 2006, 10:03 AM) http:... Oct 13 2006, 10:18 AM

ustrax From http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA0... Oct 13 2006, 01:31 PM
JRehling QUOTE (OWW @ Oct 13 2006, 02:03 AM) http:... Oct 20 2006, 05:02 PM
Matt Nice work! Oct 13 2006, 09:32 PM
MarcF I'm really impatient to see a mosaic of the T1... Oct 14 2006, 10:53 AM
Julius I fully agree with;there's a great possiblity ... Oct 14 2006, 11:36 AM
power hi,
has this article http://www.newscientistspace... Oct 14 2006, 01:27 PM
centsworth_II Wow! This look at Titan's "Great Lake... Oct 14 2006, 02:51 PM
ustrax Wow...Can't climb a hill?...Just go around it.... Oct 16 2006, 03:05 PM
ustrax One more... Oct 16 2006, 03:36 PM
ustrax a20... Oct 17 2006, 08:52 AM
stevew I agree with you. The more I play with the lakes ... Oct 19 2006, 11:29 PM
nprev Sure would be interesting to monitor these bodies ... Oct 20 2006, 10:00 PM
remcook Now in press at Icarus:
Hydrocarbon lakes on Tita... Nov 8 2006, 12:11 PM
JonClarke Sorry if this has been discussed before, but how t... Nov 12 2006, 09:16 PM
nprev Actually, the problem seems more complex than just... Nov 12 2006, 11:32 PM
centsworth_II QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 12 2006, 06:32 PM) Act... Nov 13 2006, 03:59 PM
JonClarke QUOTE (centsworth_II @ Nov 13 2006, 03:59... Nov 14 2006, 10:54 AM
nprev New pop-level "summary" article on Cassi... Nov 16 2006, 02:54 AM
helvick QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 16 2006, 02:54 AM) Tit... Nov 16 2006, 12:33 PM
ngunn QUOTE (nprev @ Nov 16 2006, 02:54 AM) One... Nov 16 2006, 12:54 PM
tty QUOTE (ngunn @ Nov 16 2006, 01:54 PM) Als... Nov 17 2006, 07:30 PM
Myran QUOTE helvick wrote: That's a very good point ... Nov 17 2006, 06:39 PM
Julius Latest flyby should have determined the compositio... Nov 20 2006, 01:42 PM
volcanopele QUOTE (Julius @ Nov 20 2006, 06:42 AM) La... Nov 20 2006, 06:48 PM
JRehling QUOTE (volcanopele @ Nov 20 2006, 10:48 A... Nov 20 2006, 07:49 PM![]() ![]() |
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