My Assistant
Experts meet to decide Pluto fate, Finally we'll know what a 'planet' is... |
Aug 14 2006, 06:06 AM
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: 2-March 04 From: Central California Member No.: 45 |
-------------------- Eric P / MizarKey
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Aug 16 2006, 03:40 AM
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#2
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
I think that the concept of "planet" has really nothing to do with the scientific hierarchical classification system. As far as that goes, I think we have five major classifications -- ISSRO's (Inner Solar System Rocky Objects), GGO's (Gas Giant Objects), IGO's (Ice Giant Objects), KBO's (Kuiper Belt Objects) and OCO's (Oort Cloud Objects). A separate set of classifications can be applied to moons of these objects.
I will restate, though, that when an average citizen of the Earth asks "What are the planets?" he/she is asking something similar to "What's the layout and population of my town?" They don't want to gain new scientific insights into the Solar System, they want a number and a set of names they can wrap their minds around, feel comfortable with, and go out armed with the knowledge that they at least know the basic layout of their own little corner of the Universe. For example, there was a time when the population of a town was only expressed in the number of adult white males that lived there. Then women and minorities made it clear that they needed to be counted, and so the concept of what made up the census of people in a given place changed. What we're arguing about here is similar to the little old lady who complains that the census says she lives alone, when she actually lives with her fourteen cats, and she demands that the cats be counted in... In other words, your average person, in my humble opinion, doesn't care about the fine scientific distinctions. They want to know the names of the streets in their neighborhood, the names of the families that live nearby, and where City Hall, the grocery store and the shopping mall are located. They don't want (or need) to have their "naming of things" stretched out to include detailed numeric representations of every street, path, walkway, sidewalk, and alley, nor do they have any need to know the names of every cat, dog, gerbil and flea that lives near them. If you give them such a detailed accounting, they will simply ignore it. They will know it exists, but they just won't care. I think that's why this whole issue with Pluto is getting some people energized. They don't really care why something is named a planet or some other thing, they want to know the equivalent of the street names in their town and where their friends and acquaintances live. They want to know the names of, and a little about, the "places" in our Solar System, and if that list grows from 9 to 256,347, they're going to ask for (and get!) a list of just those places they ought to consider "important." In the end, it's that list they ask for -- the one that defines the "important" places in the solar system -- that will be the list of the "planets." At least, it will be the only list that anyone beyond a small handful of scientists will ever memorize or feel that they "know"... -the other Doug -------------------- “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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MizarKey Experts meet to decide Pluto fate Aug 14 2006, 06:06 AM
paxdan IMHO pluto is NOT a planet....
Just thought i... Aug 14 2006, 07:11 AM
akuo I'm going to start a campaign to remove the pl... Aug 14 2006, 08:20 AM
David QUOTE (akuo @ Aug 14 2006, 08:20 AM) I... Aug 14 2006, 11:31 AM
Ames QUOTE (David @ Aug 14 2006, 12:31 PM) If ... Aug 14 2006, 11:36 AM
djellison You can think of all sorts of ways of branding whe... Aug 14 2006, 11:45 AM
ups "About 3,000 astronomers and scientists are m... Aug 14 2006, 12:12 PM
rogelio Concerning Pluto and the planet definition debate:... Aug 14 2006, 01:06 PM
JRehling [...] Aug 14 2006, 02:04 PM
remcook JRehling, that's one of the most sensible argu... Aug 14 2006, 02:46 PM
David I agree that the divisions are arbitrary, that the... Aug 14 2006, 05:22 PM
volcanopele David brought up a good point that this is more pr... Aug 14 2006, 06:47 PM
Alan Stern [quote name='volcanopele' date='Aug 14... Aug 15 2006, 11:43 AM
rogelio Yes, as volcanopele and others have mentioned, ... Aug 14 2006, 07:08 PM
DonPMitchell An interesting point. Would NASA have been able t... Aug 14 2006, 09:04 PM
SigurRosFan In the news ...
QUOTE Pluto the Ninth, Xena (2003 ... Aug 15 2006, 11:18 AM
DFinfrock QUOTE (SigurRosFan @ Aug 15 2006, 11:18 A... Aug 15 2006, 10:58 PM
volcanopele QUOTE (DFinfrock @ Aug 15 2006, 03:58 PM)... Aug 16 2006, 12:09 AM
Greg Hullender It's also worth mentioning that Ceres used to ... Aug 15 2006, 01:47 PM
David QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Aug 15 2006, 01:4... Aug 15 2006, 04:56 PM
ljk4-1 According to SpaceToday.net via NPR (National Publ... Aug 15 2006, 01:49 PM
MahFL I would like Pluto to remain a planet. Aug 15 2006, 02:03 PM
ngunn Does anyone feel like setting up a poll on this? (... Aug 15 2006, 03:56 PM
volcanopele QUOTE I must say that I disagree. As reductionists... Aug 15 2006, 04:36 PM
AlexBlackwell QUOTE (volcanopele @ Aug 15 2006, 06:36 A... Aug 15 2006, 04:45 PM
volcanopele QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Aug 15 2006, 09:45... Aug 15 2006, 04:56 PM
David QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Aug 15 2006, 04:45... Aug 15 2006, 05:01 PM

Alan Stern QUOTE (David @ Aug 15 2006, 05:01 PM) I d... Aug 15 2006, 05:36 PM

David QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Aug 15 2006, 05:36 PM... Aug 15 2006, 05:58 PM

Alan Stern QUOTE (David @ Aug 15 2006, 05:58 PM) I... Aug 15 2006, 06:23 PM

David QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Aug 15 2006, 06:23 PM... Aug 15 2006, 06:37 PM


Alan Stern QUOTE (David @ Aug 15 2006, 06:37 PM) I r... Aug 15 2006, 07:31 PM


ljk4-1 QUOTE (David @ Aug 15 2006, 02:37 PM) And... Aug 15 2006, 08:13 PM

vexgizmo QUOTE (David @ Aug 16 2006, 10:14 AM) Ala... Aug 16 2006, 05:58 PM

David QUOTE (vexgizmo @ Aug 16 2006, 05:58 PM) ... Aug 16 2006, 06:04 PM
JRehling [...] Aug 15 2006, 08:52 PM
AlexBlackwell QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 15 2006, 10:52 AM) ... Aug 15 2006, 09:03 PM
JRehling [...] Aug 16 2006, 06:16 PM
AlexBlackwell QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 16 2006, 08:16 AM) ... Aug 16 2006, 07:25 PM
Holder of the Two Leashes It has been announced on the SpaceDaily website th... Aug 16 2006, 03:45 AM
mcaplinger QUOTE (Holder of the Two Leashes @ Aug 15 200... Aug 16 2006, 04:05 AM
MichaelT The relevant IAU press release can be found here:
... Aug 16 2006, 09:06 AM
volcanopele ? only 12? In your other post, you stated that th... Aug 16 2006, 04:05 AM
dvandorn So, is the new nursery-rhyme mnemonic for the plan... Aug 16 2006, 04:23 AM
ngunn QUOTE (dvandorn @ Aug 16 2006, 05:23 AM) ... Aug 16 2006, 12:44 PM
Ames QUOTE (ngunn @ Aug 16 2006, 01:44 PM) How... Aug 16 2006, 12:53 PM
ngunn QUOTE (Ames @ Aug 16 2006, 01:53 PM) I li... Aug 16 2006, 02:00 PM
nprev Mmm...pickled spicy xylophones....
Interesting ... Aug 16 2006, 05:11 AM
volcanopele I certainly have no problem with having a lot of p... Aug 16 2006, 05:22 AM
DonPMitchell A wise choice. They have a nice physically-based ... Aug 16 2006, 06:25 AM
djellison Totally unrelated politics and political imagery r... Aug 16 2006, 08:28 AM
ngunn I wonder what happens if the mutual orbits are ecc... Aug 16 2006, 10:31 AM
ugordan QUOTE (ngunn @ Aug 16 2006, 11:31 AM) I w... Aug 16 2006, 10:50 AM
djellison And just for good measure, an article about a back... Aug 16 2006, 10:39 AM
paxdan QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 16 2006, 11:39 AM)... Aug 16 2006, 11:06 AM
JamesFox Personally, I have to admit that I feel rather une... Aug 16 2006, 11:07 AM
David QUOTE (JamesFox @ Aug 16 2006, 11:07 AM) ... Aug 16 2006, 11:15 AM

JamesFox QUOTE (David @ Aug 16 2006, 07:15 AM) 1. ... Aug 16 2006, 11:25 AM

David QUOTE (JamesFox @ Aug 16 2006, 11:25 AM) ... Aug 16 2006, 11:34 AM
Ames QUOTE (JamesFox @ Aug 16 2006, 12:07 PM) ... Aug 16 2006, 11:40 AM
Ames QUOTE (Ames @ Aug 16 2006, 12:40 PM) That... Aug 16 2006, 11:44 AM
David Does "double planet" imply a single enti... Aug 16 2006, 11:57 AM
MichaelT QUOTE (David @ Aug 16 2006, 11:57 AM) Doe... Aug 16 2006, 12:07 PM
ugordan QUOTE (MichaelT @ Aug 16 2006, 01:07 PM) ... Aug 16 2006, 12:25 PM
paxdan QUOTE (ugordan @ Aug 16 2006, 01:25 PM) H... Aug 16 2006, 12:41 PM
Alan Stern QUOTE (ugordan @ Aug 16 2006, 12:25 PM) H... Aug 16 2006, 12:57 PM
ngunn QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Aug 16 2006, 01:57 PM... Aug 16 2006, 01:22 PM
ugordan QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Aug 16 2006, 01:57 PM... Aug 16 2006, 01:25 PM
David QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Aug 16 2006, 12:57 PM... Aug 16 2006, 01:29 PM
ljk4-1 Just how binding is the IAU decision on astronomer... Aug 16 2006, 12:48 PM
rogelio Dateline 2015: U.S. Postal Service issues revised... Aug 16 2006, 12:51 PM
maycm My kids have a video of "Blues Clues" wh... Aug 16 2006, 01:25 PM
djellison I must admit - I was explaining all this to my eve... Aug 16 2006, 01:37 PM
David QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 16 2006, 01:37 PM)... Aug 16 2006, 01:49 PM
Tom Tamlyn Today's New York Times has a good article on t... Aug 16 2006, 01:44 PM
Greg Hullender It does seem that it would have been useful to cre... Aug 16 2006, 02:02 PM
mcaplinger The barycenter rule is laughable, IMHO. You'd... Aug 16 2006, 02:33 PM
David QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Aug 16 2006, 02:33 PM... Aug 16 2006, 04:25 PM
JRehling [...] Aug 16 2006, 04:29 PM
David QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 16 2006, 04:29 PM) ... Aug 16 2006, 05:14 PM
AlexBlackwell QUOTE (David @ Aug 16 2006, 07:14 AM) Ult... Aug 16 2006, 05:31 PM
JRehling [...] Aug 16 2006, 05:49 PM
Alan Stern [
> DPS PRESS RELEASE (Released 16 August 2006)... Aug 16 2006, 05:51 PM
ljk4-1 A camel: A horse designed by committee. Aug 16 2006, 02:42 PM
alan They can't change Pluto's clasification wi... Aug 16 2006, 03:04 PM
jsheff Results are in:
IAU Aug 16 2006, 04:35 PM
maycm QUOTE (jsheff @ Aug 16 2006, 12:35 PM) Re... Aug 16 2006, 04:40 PM
AlexBlackwell I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but h... Aug 16 2006, 04:46 PM
vexgizmo "A planet is a celestial body that (a) has su... Aug 16 2006, 04:51 PM
hendric The correct answer for the marginal cases is simpl... Aug 16 2006, 05:29 PM
AlexBlackwell The editorial that appears in the August 17, 2006,... Aug 16 2006, 05:44 PM
Phil Stooke As a rule of thumb for whether a non-spherical wor... Aug 16 2006, 06:08 PM
David QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Aug 16 2006, 06:08 P... Aug 16 2006, 07:17 PM
AlexBlackwell Phil Plait has an interesting take on it. Aug 16 2006, 06:17 PM
volcanopele now that I have heard the rational for the double ... Aug 16 2006, 07:47 PM
JRehling [...] Aug 16 2006, 07:58 PM
David QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 16 2006, 07:58 PM) ... Aug 16 2006, 08:08 PM
Jyril The barycenter criterion may become handy in the c... Aug 16 2006, 08:13 PM
jsheff I don't have a problem with roundness as a cri... Aug 16 2006, 08:13 PM![]() ![]() |
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