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Experts meet to decide Pluto fate, Finally we'll know what a 'planet' is...
MizarKey
post Aug 14 2006, 06:06 AM
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One of many articles regarding the upcoming conference...

Experts meet to decide Pluto fate


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Eric P / MizarKey
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dvandorn
post Aug 16 2006, 03:40 AM
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I think that the concept of "planet" has really nothing to do with the scientific hierarchical classification system. As far as that goes, I think we have five major classifications -- ISSRO's (Inner Solar System Rocky Objects), GGO's (Gas Giant Objects), IGO's (Ice Giant Objects), KBO's (Kuiper Belt Objects) and OCO's (Oort Cloud Objects). A separate set of classifications can be applied to moons of these objects.

I will restate, though, that when an average citizen of the Earth asks "What are the planets?" he/she is asking something similar to "What's the layout and population of my town?" They don't want to gain new scientific insights into the Solar System, they want a number and a set of names they can wrap their minds around, feel comfortable with, and go out armed with the knowledge that they at least know the basic layout of their own little corner of the Universe.

For example, there was a time when the population of a town was only expressed in the number of adult white males that lived there. Then women and minorities made it clear that they needed to be counted, and so the concept of what made up the census of people in a given place changed. What we're arguing about here is similar to the little old lady who complains that the census says she lives alone, when she actually lives with her fourteen cats, and she demands that the cats be counted in...

In other words, your average person, in my humble opinion, doesn't care about the fine scientific distinctions. They want to know the names of the streets in their neighborhood, the names of the families that live nearby, and where City Hall, the grocery store and the shopping mall are located. They don't want (or need) to have their "naming of things" stretched out to include detailed numeric representations of every street, path, walkway, sidewalk, and alley, nor do they have any need to know the names of every cat, dog, gerbil and flea that lives near them. If you give them such a detailed accounting, they will simply ignore it. They will know it exists, but they just won't care.

I think that's why this whole issue with Pluto is getting some people energized. They don't really care why something is named a planet or some other thing, they want to know the equivalent of the street names in their town and where their friends and acquaintances live. They want to know the names of, and a little about, the "places" in our Solar System, and if that list grows from 9 to 256,347, they're going to ask for (and get!) a list of just those places they ought to consider "important."

In the end, it's that list they ask for -- the one that defines the "important" places in the solar system -- that will be the list of the "planets." At least, it will be the only list that anyone beyond a small handful of scientists will ever memorize or feel that they "know"...

-the other Doug


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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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- MizarKey   Experts meet to decide Pluto fate   Aug 14 2006, 06:06 AM
- - paxdan   IMHO pluto is NOT a planet.... Just thought i...   Aug 14 2006, 07:11 AM
- - akuo   I'm going to start a campaign to remove the pl...   Aug 14 2006, 08:20 AM
|- - David   QUOTE (akuo @ Aug 14 2006, 08:20 AM) I...   Aug 14 2006, 11:31 AM
|- - Ames   QUOTE (David @ Aug 14 2006, 12:31 PM) If ...   Aug 14 2006, 11:36 AM
- - djellison   You can think of all sorts of ways of branding whe...   Aug 14 2006, 11:45 AM
- - ups   "About 3,000 astronomers and scientists are m...   Aug 14 2006, 12:12 PM
- - rogelio   Concerning Pluto and the planet definition debate:...   Aug 14 2006, 01:06 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Aug 14 2006, 02:04 PM
- - remcook   JRehling, that's one of the most sensible argu...   Aug 14 2006, 02:46 PM
|- - David   I agree that the divisions are arbitrary, that the...   Aug 14 2006, 05:22 PM
- - volcanopele   David brought up a good point that this is more pr...   Aug 14 2006, 06:47 PM
|- - Alan Stern   [quote name='volcanopele' date='Aug 14...   Aug 15 2006, 11:43 AM
- - rogelio   Yes, as volcanopele and others have mentioned, ...   Aug 14 2006, 07:08 PM
- - DonPMitchell   An interesting point. Would NASA have been able t...   Aug 14 2006, 09:04 PM
- - SigurRosFan   In the news ... QUOTE Pluto the Ninth, Xena (2003 ...   Aug 15 2006, 11:18 AM
|- - DFinfrock   QUOTE (SigurRosFan @ Aug 15 2006, 11:18 A...   Aug 15 2006, 10:58 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (DFinfrock @ Aug 15 2006, 03:58 PM)...   Aug 16 2006, 12:09 AM
- - Greg Hullender   It's also worth mentioning that Ceres used to ...   Aug 15 2006, 01:47 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Aug 15 2006, 01:4...   Aug 15 2006, 04:56 PM
- - ljk4-1   According to SpaceToday.net via NPR (National Publ...   Aug 15 2006, 01:49 PM
|- - MahFL   I would like Pluto to remain a planet.   Aug 15 2006, 02:03 PM
- - ngunn   Does anyone feel like setting up a poll on this? (...   Aug 15 2006, 03:56 PM
- - volcanopele   QUOTE I must say that I disagree. As reductionists...   Aug 15 2006, 04:36 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (volcanopele @ Aug 15 2006, 06:36 A...   Aug 15 2006, 04:45 PM
|- - volcanopele   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Aug 15 2006, 09:45...   Aug 15 2006, 04:56 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Aug 15 2006, 04:45...   Aug 15 2006, 05:01 PM
||- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (David @ Aug 15 2006, 05:01 PM) I d...   Aug 15 2006, 05:36 PM
||- - David   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Aug 15 2006, 05:36 PM...   Aug 15 2006, 05:58 PM
||- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (David @ Aug 15 2006, 05:58 PM) I...   Aug 15 2006, 06:23 PM
||- - David   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Aug 15 2006, 06:23 PM...   Aug 15 2006, 06:37 PM
|||- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (David @ Aug 15 2006, 06:37 PM) I r...   Aug 15 2006, 07:31 PM
|||- - ljk4-1   QUOTE (David @ Aug 15 2006, 02:37 PM) And...   Aug 15 2006, 08:13 PM
||- - vexgizmo   QUOTE (David @ Aug 16 2006, 10:14 AM) Ala...   Aug 16 2006, 05:58 PM
||- - David   QUOTE (vexgizmo @ Aug 16 2006, 05:58 PM) ...   Aug 16 2006, 06:04 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Aug 15 2006, 08:52 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 15 2006, 10:52 AM) ...   Aug 15 2006, 09:03 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Aug 16 2006, 06:16 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 16 2006, 08:16 AM) ...   Aug 16 2006, 07:25 PM
- - dvandorn   I think that the concept of "planet" has...   Aug 16 2006, 03:40 AM
- - Holder of the Two Leashes   It has been announced on the SpaceDaily website th...   Aug 16 2006, 03:45 AM
|- - mcaplinger   QUOTE (Holder of the Two Leashes @ Aug 15 200...   Aug 16 2006, 04:05 AM
|- - MichaelT   The relevant IAU press release can be found here: ...   Aug 16 2006, 09:06 AM
- - volcanopele   ? only 12? In your other post, you stated that th...   Aug 16 2006, 04:05 AM
- - dvandorn   So, is the new nursery-rhyme mnemonic for the plan...   Aug 16 2006, 04:23 AM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (dvandorn @ Aug 16 2006, 05:23 AM) ...   Aug 16 2006, 12:44 PM
|- - Ames   QUOTE (ngunn @ Aug 16 2006, 01:44 PM) How...   Aug 16 2006, 12:53 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (Ames @ Aug 16 2006, 01:53 PM) I li...   Aug 16 2006, 02:00 PM
- - nprev   Mmm...pickled spicy xylophones.... Interesting ...   Aug 16 2006, 05:11 AM
- - volcanopele   I certainly have no problem with having a lot of p...   Aug 16 2006, 05:22 AM
- - DonPMitchell   A wise choice. They have a nice physically-based ...   Aug 16 2006, 06:25 AM
- - djellison   Totally unrelated politics and political imagery r...   Aug 16 2006, 08:28 AM
- - ngunn   I wonder what happens if the mutual orbits are ecc...   Aug 16 2006, 10:31 AM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (ngunn @ Aug 16 2006, 11:31 AM) I w...   Aug 16 2006, 10:50 AM
- - djellison   And just for good measure, an article about a back...   Aug 16 2006, 10:39 AM
|- - paxdan   QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 16 2006, 11:39 AM)...   Aug 16 2006, 11:06 AM
- - JamesFox   Personally, I have to admit that I feel rather une...   Aug 16 2006, 11:07 AM
|- - David   QUOTE (JamesFox @ Aug 16 2006, 11:07 AM) ...   Aug 16 2006, 11:15 AM
||- - JamesFox   QUOTE (David @ Aug 16 2006, 07:15 AM) 1. ...   Aug 16 2006, 11:25 AM
||- - David   QUOTE (JamesFox @ Aug 16 2006, 11:25 AM) ...   Aug 16 2006, 11:34 AM
|- - Ames   QUOTE (JamesFox @ Aug 16 2006, 12:07 PM) ...   Aug 16 2006, 11:40 AM
|- - Ames   QUOTE (Ames @ Aug 16 2006, 12:40 PM) That...   Aug 16 2006, 11:44 AM
|- - David   Does "double planet" imply a single enti...   Aug 16 2006, 11:57 AM
|- - MichaelT   QUOTE (David @ Aug 16 2006, 11:57 AM) Doe...   Aug 16 2006, 12:07 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (MichaelT @ Aug 16 2006, 01:07 PM) ...   Aug 16 2006, 12:25 PM
|- - paxdan   QUOTE (ugordan @ Aug 16 2006, 01:25 PM) H...   Aug 16 2006, 12:41 PM
|- - Alan Stern   QUOTE (ugordan @ Aug 16 2006, 12:25 PM) H...   Aug 16 2006, 12:57 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Aug 16 2006, 01:57 PM...   Aug 16 2006, 01:22 PM
|- - ugordan   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Aug 16 2006, 01:57 PM...   Aug 16 2006, 01:25 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (Alan Stern @ Aug 16 2006, 12:57 PM...   Aug 16 2006, 01:29 PM
- - ljk4-1   Just how binding is the IAU decision on astronomer...   Aug 16 2006, 12:48 PM
- - rogelio   Dateline 2015: U.S. Postal Service issues revised...   Aug 16 2006, 12:51 PM
- - maycm   My kids have a video of "Blues Clues" wh...   Aug 16 2006, 01:25 PM
- - djellison   I must admit - I was explaining all this to my eve...   Aug 16 2006, 01:37 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (djellison @ Aug 16 2006, 01:37 PM)...   Aug 16 2006, 01:49 PM
- - Tom Tamlyn   Today's New York Times has a good article on t...   Aug 16 2006, 01:44 PM
- - Greg Hullender   It does seem that it would have been useful to cre...   Aug 16 2006, 02:02 PM
- - mcaplinger   The barycenter rule is laughable, IMHO. You'd...   Aug 16 2006, 02:33 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (mcaplinger @ Aug 16 2006, 02:33 PM...   Aug 16 2006, 04:25 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Aug 16 2006, 04:29 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 16 2006, 04:29 PM) ...   Aug 16 2006, 05:14 PM
|- - AlexBlackwell   QUOTE (David @ Aug 16 2006, 07:14 AM) Ult...   Aug 16 2006, 05:31 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Aug 16 2006, 05:49 PM
|- - Alan Stern   [ > DPS PRESS RELEASE (Released 16 August 2006)...   Aug 16 2006, 05:51 PM
- - ljk4-1   A camel: A horse designed by committee.   Aug 16 2006, 02:42 PM
- - alan   They can't change Pluto's clasification wi...   Aug 16 2006, 03:04 PM
- - jsheff   Results are in: IAU   Aug 16 2006, 04:35 PM
|- - maycm   QUOTE (jsheff @ Aug 16 2006, 12:35 PM) Re...   Aug 16 2006, 04:40 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but h...   Aug 16 2006, 04:46 PM
- - vexgizmo   "A planet is a celestial body that (a) has su...   Aug 16 2006, 04:51 PM
- - hendric   The correct answer for the marginal cases is simpl...   Aug 16 2006, 05:29 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   The editorial that appears in the August 17, 2006,...   Aug 16 2006, 05:44 PM
- - Phil Stooke   As a rule of thumb for whether a non-spherical wor...   Aug 16 2006, 06:08 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Aug 16 2006, 06:08 P...   Aug 16 2006, 07:17 PM
- - AlexBlackwell   Phil Plait has an interesting take on it.   Aug 16 2006, 06:17 PM
- - volcanopele   now that I have heard the rational for the double ...   Aug 16 2006, 07:47 PM
|- - JRehling   [...]   Aug 16 2006, 07:58 PM
|- - David   QUOTE (JRehling @ Aug 16 2006, 07:58 PM) ...   Aug 16 2006, 08:08 PM
- - Jyril   The barycenter criterion may become handy in the c...   Aug 16 2006, 08:13 PM
- - jsheff   I don't have a problem with roundness as a cri...   Aug 16 2006, 08:13 PM
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