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China to the Moon - Chang'e 1 and 2, Chinese unmanned lunar orbiters
djellison
post Dec 3 2007, 06:02 PM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...3/wchina103.xml

The two are obviously not the same image, and if confirmed, that extra crater is an astonishing find.

Doug
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Phil Stooke
post Dec 3 2007, 07:25 PM
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The 'new' crater doesn't look at all fresh in the high resolution version. Is is a bad seam in the mosaic? I can't see any other evidence of a bad seam, but it might be.

Phil


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Guest_Zvezdichko_*
post Dec 3 2007, 08:24 PM
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Well, this photo is obviously *not* fake, because it's difficult to "Photoshop" the angles of the shadows.

And I don't think this is the right place to discuss conspiracy theories. I'm tired of this awful Apollo Moon Hoax, because the situation in Bulgaria is bad enough and every time I start to talk about astronautics I get the same - the "Americans never went to the Moon." I really don't want to hear any more rumours that even unmanned Moon missions are fake.
I have a web site that was supposed to be dedicated to spaceflight. Now it's a place to debunk hoax theories and it's sad that people believe in this nonsence.
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elakdawalla
post Dec 3 2007, 08:46 PM
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Also, what NASA spacecraft would have taken a picture in 2005? Perhaps they refer to a Clementine mosaic released in 2005 -- is that it? I think that they are in fact showing part of the Clementine base map.

Here is an original Clementine image (not from the base map) of the same area. It's a 750 nm UVVIS image. (Source)
Attached Image


The Telegraph article showed a crop from a low-res version of the Chang'e image. Here is a crop from the full-res Chang'e image, which does indeed seem to show a new feature in the position highlighted in the article. What do you think, Phil?
Attached Image


A closeup on the area:
Attached Image

My two cents: look how much more detail is visible in the Chang'e image, even though they are at similar resolutions, and even though the Chang'e image has been JPEG-compressed, while the Clementine one is original data presented in GIF format, so it's losslessly compressed...

--Emily


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elakdawalla
post Dec 3 2007, 09:36 PM
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Aha -- I figured it out! The apparent new feature is a result of an image seam, as Phil suggested. Here's a sloppily reconstructed version.

Attached Image


--Emily


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tedstryk
post Dec 3 2007, 09:44 PM
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It is clearly a double image of the same crater, caused by improper assembly of the mosaic - this is common on early releases in a mission.. On the new image, you may notice that the crater within the crater on the left side is visible, just as in the Clementine image, but the crater abruptly fades out to the right. On the "upper crater" in China's new image, the crater fades out at about the same place horizontally in the image, which in this case is on the left side. If you look at the little crater along the rim at the 2:00 position, it is in exactly the same place in both images. Looking below the crater, you will also notice the slightly diagonal (close to vertical) little trough visible in the Clementine image is also double.


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tedstryk
post Dec 3 2007, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Dec 3 2007, 09:36 PM) *
Aha -- I figured it out!

--Emily



You beat me to it while I was typing biggrin.gif


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nprev
post Dec 4 2007, 12:21 AM
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Bravo...not only imagesmiths, but imagesleuths! smile.gif Well done, Emily & Ted!


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nop
post Dec 4 2007, 04:02 AM
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I found cool 3-D images taken by Chang'e at a Chinese news site:
http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2007-12-02/150914433606.shtml
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Tom Tamlyn
post Dec 4 2007, 11:31 PM
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Alan Boyle, MSNBC's science blogger, offers Emily some well-deserved kudos for her sleuthing and her characteristically clear and persuasive write-up, which should be definitive.

TTT

This post has been edited by Tom Tamlyn: Dec 4 2007, 11:34 PM
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mps
post Dec 5 2007, 08:48 AM
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msnbc cosmic log says: "Lakdawalla's explanation would be embarrassing for Beijing, but it makes the most sense as the solution to this week's moon photo mystery."

I wouldn't want to be the poor guy who processed that image...
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remcook
post Dec 5 2007, 02:40 PM
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amazing story on the blog Emily. well done! This kind of stuff really brings solar system exploration to your own living room!
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elakdawalla
post Dec 5 2007, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE (mps @ Dec 5 2007, 12:48 AM) *
I wouldn't want to be the poor guy who processed that image...
Actually I think whoever processed the image did a nice job -- it's a really pretty product. If anyone should feel embarassment it's the chief scientist who pointed out that feature as a new crater, but really even that wouldn't have been a big deal if it hadn't been wrapped up in the fakery story. It's like that first Viking photo that was erroneously given a blue sky. A mistake early in a mission that can be fixed later -- but unfortunately not before it spawns a million conspiracy theories.

Thanks for the compliments, guys. I think the lesson here is that when there are whole data sets available on the Internet in an unprocessed format, it's not hard for regular people to argue against conspiracy theories. I think the Chinese might benefit from posting some of the original image strips in question so you can see what the raw materials were for their beautiful image.

--Emily


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Moon Saloon
post Dec 6 2007, 02:52 AM
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.
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Phil Stooke
post Dec 10 2007, 12:51 AM
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New Chang-e 1 images here:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-12/...ent_7221256.htm

(go to page 3 for the new item, the Alphonsus area of the central nearside)


Come on Kaggers! They're going to ovetake you in the PR stakes.

Phil


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