My Assistant
On a ring origin of the equatorial ridge of Iapetus |
| Guest_AlexBlackwell_* |
Aug 29 2006, 06:18 PM
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Wing Ip just had an interesting Iapetus-related paper published in GRL.
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Aug 31 2006, 01:27 PM
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#2
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 30-January 05 Member No.: 162 |
Invoking an atmosphere above a certain very low density will create havoc with the orderly linear progression of the emplacement.
You would wind up with a debris belt all the way around the equator if atmospheric drag forces exceed the magnitude of the differential dynamic spreading affect in the ring materials themselves. Additionally, due to the enormous volume of space a proto Iapetus would have had to sweep out to accrete itself (and of course its' relatively low orbital speed, too) I think we can infer that heating effects and subsequent melting of Iapetus was uniquely low for a significant moon in our solar system. The 'lumpy' limb of Iapetus seen in the Cassini images also infers a great bearing strength for the Iapetan crust. Due to its' distance from Saturn, Iapetus would also have experienced a uniquely low rate of tidal heating as it de-spun to tide lock with Saturn. Iapetus had a uniquely ridgid and sturdy crust very early in the game, allowing us the chance to observe some of the most apparently ancient surfaces features yet seen. I also think we can assume the ring entirely deposited itself onto the Iapetan surface. While the ring spreading effect would tend to 'loft' some material at the high side of the ring system through the Roche limit were it may have had the opprotunity to 'clump up' as we see in the outer reaches of the Saturnian rings, we must also consider drag effects that would have acted on the entire ring system. Poynting-Robertson effects would have sapped orbital energy from the smaller particles across the ring system, and drag forces from the solar wind and perhaps even the Saturnian magnetotail would have provided a resistive medium for the ring system. We also note the steepness of the sides of the resulting ridge structure on Iapetus. While I am not an expert in anything, it seems the sides of the ridge are plausibly at the angle of repose for materials deposited from above. I also cautiously and with all due respect note some of the test footage shown on NASA TV of ice impacts on wing structures during the Columbia accident investigation. Ice was fired at the test samples in a speed range not too far short of the possible touch down speeds of ring materials onto Iapetus. To my untrained eye, (even though the tests appeared to be conducted at room temp and not at -300 F) it appeared the ice did not appreciably wet the surfaces it contacted. Rather, it just tended to pulverize into 'snow'. (in fact, one could see the pulverization occured at the instant of contact, the speed of sound (and fracturing) in the ice being so much higher than the impact speed). Cryogenically frozen water ice (a plausible ring material) smacking a cryogenically frozen surface in a speed range not exceeding 1500 kph just isn't going to melt much (or vaporize) at impact. Note, some gas/particle spray liberated at the point of contact will interact with the materials still orbiting above that point. Any material passing through that area of 'spray' will not complete another orbit of Iapetus and will land downrange along the ground track. This is why the main ridge (and the 2 attendants too) slope down away from the high end. |
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Sep 3 2006, 11:22 PM
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 624 Joined: 10-August 05 Member No.: 460 |
I also cautiously and with all due respect note some of the test footage shown on NASA TV of ice impacts on wing structures during the Columbia accident investigation. Ice was fired at the test samples in a speed range not too far short of the possible touch down speeds of ring materials onto Iapetus. To my untrained eye, (even though the tests appeared to be conducted at room temp and not at -300 F) it appeared the ice did not appreciably wet the surfaces it contacted. Rather, it just tended to pulverize into 'snow'. (in fact, one could see the pulverization occured at the instant of contact, the speed of sound (and fracturing) in the ice being so much higher than the impact speed). What you do not see, even in the high speed film clips, is how much ice is immediately vaporized - perhaps some of it quickly recrystalizing. It is a substantial amount (I will try to find a quantity). During these and similar test, quite heavy steal supporting brackets were deflected and bent. QUOTE Cryogenically frozen water ice (a plausible ring material) smacking a cryogenically frozen surface in a speed range not exceeding 1500 kph just isn't going to melt much (or vaporize) at impact. I have to wonder if this is true. When F-16's collide with the desert at similar velocities, they expect the remains of the pilot to weight 18-25 lbs - if there is no cockpit fire. Virtually all of the liquids - water, uncontained oils and fuel - are immediately vaporized. QUOTE Note, some gas/particle spray liberated at the point of contact will interact with the materials still orbiting above that point. Any material passing through that area of 'spray' will not complete another orbit of Iapetus and will land downrange along the ground track. This is why the main ridge (and the 2 attendants too) slope down away from the high end. I like your analysis of the 'bulldozer effect', but I don't see water at any temperature as the source of this ridge deposit - if so, it should look more like drifting snow than Paul Bunyan and his plow. |
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AlexBlackwell On a ring origin of the equatorial ridge of Iapetus Aug 29 2006, 06:18 PM
volcanopele okay, now a ring around Iaptetus is an interesting... Aug 29 2006, 06:20 PM
AlexBlackwell Here's an interesting passage from the conclud... Aug 29 2006, 06:25 PM
Michael Capobianco Does the paper address why the equatorial ridge do... Aug 29 2006, 06:40 PM
David QUOTE (Michael Capobianco @ Aug 29 2006, 06... Aug 29 2006, 07:05 PM
Decepticon QUOTE (Michael Capobianco @ Aug 29 2006, 02... Aug 29 2006, 11:56 PM
JRehling Roughly speaking, I guess the fact that the ridge ... Aug 30 2006, 01:07 AM
jsheff Would this process also explain the albedo assymet... Aug 29 2006, 07:06 PM
tasp QUOTE (jsheff @ Aug 29 2006, 02:06 PM) Wo... Sep 10 2006, 01:35 AM
AlexBlackwell QUOTE (Michael Capobianco @ Aug 29 2006, 08... Aug 29 2006, 07:44 PM
tasp An object skimming the surface of Iapetus will hav... Aug 30 2006, 05:11 AM
AlexBlackwell There was a brief blurb about this paper yesterday... Aug 30 2006, 07:53 PM
Rob Pinnegar I guess this idea probably originated with those i... Aug 30 2006, 09:41 PM
tasp QUOTE (Rob Pinnegar @ Aug 30 2006, 04:41 ... Aug 30 2006, 11:29 PM
dvandorn Does Iapetus' ridge have to have been created ... Aug 31 2006, 12:04 AM
tasp Maintaining focus (or collimation) of the strand ... Aug 31 2006, 03:02 AM
David I think I understand the idea to be one of a low-v... Aug 31 2006, 07:23 AM
ngunn Under the scenario proposed I would expect volatil... Aug 31 2006, 10:00 AM
ugordan QUOTE (ngunn @ Aug 31 2006, 11:00 AM) Cou... Aug 31 2006, 11:18 AM
ngunn QUOTE (ugordan @ Aug 31 2006, 12:18 PM) M... Aug 31 2006, 11:50 AM
ugordan The point I was trying to make is the greatest tem... Aug 31 2006, 12:08 PM
ngunn QUOTE (ugordan @ Aug 31 2006, 01:08 PM) A... Aug 31 2006, 12:38 PM
ngunn One other point - the 'catastrophic atmosphere... Aug 31 2006, 01:06 PM
ngunn QUOTE (tasp @ Aug 31 2006, 02:27 PM) Invo... Aug 31 2006, 02:01 PM
ngunn QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 4 2006, 12:22 ... Sep 4 2006, 10:13 AM

The Messenger QUOTE (ngunn @ Sep 4 2006, 04:13 AM) Why?... Sep 6 2006, 03:21 AM

ngunn QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 6 2006, 04:21 ... Sep 6 2006, 08:15 AM


JRehling A comment on followup missions: Whatever future mi... Sep 6 2006, 12:02 PM


ugordan QUOTE (JRehling @ Sep 6 2006, 01:02 PM) A... Sep 6 2006, 12:29 PM


mchan QUOTE (ugordan @ Sep 6 2006, 05:29 AM) Tr... Sep 6 2006, 11:15 PM


ugordan QUOTE (mchan @ Sep 7 2006, 12:15 AM) I do... Sep 7 2006, 06:58 AM

TritonAntares Hi,
let us anticipate the equatorial ridge was bui... Sep 6 2006, 08:51 AM

ugordan The ridge is ancient which means the ring is also ... Sep 6 2006, 09:03 AM


ngunn QUOTE (ugordan @ Sep 6 2006, 10:03 AM) Pe... Sep 6 2006, 12:41 PM

ngunn QUOTE (TritonAntares @ Sep 6 2006, 09:51 ... Sep 6 2006, 09:05 AM

tasp QUOTE (TritonAntares @ Sep 6 2006, 03:51 ... Sep 9 2006, 02:32 PM
JRehling QUOTE (The Messenger @ Sep 3 2006, 04:22 ... Sep 5 2006, 04:44 PM
tasp And this, consider the oblique impactor that may h... Aug 31 2006, 01:33 PM
ngunn Note the following sentence already quoted by Alex... Aug 31 2006, 02:52 PM
tasp I am having trouble seeing how the precipitating l... Aug 31 2006, 03:56 PM
Rob Pinnegar You mention "attendant ridges". This was... Aug 31 2006, 05:20 PM
ngunn On multiple ridges - perhaps the emplacement of th... Sep 1 2006, 11:26 AM
tasp I admit a certain favoring of an oblique impact kn... Sep 1 2006, 01:45 PM
ngunn This discussion has become really interesting. I... Sep 1 2006, 02:52 PM
ngunn Just found John Rehling's rather nice diagram ... Sep 4 2006, 01:49 PM
TritonAntares Hi,
I've just been back from a 1-week-vacation... Sep 5 2006, 10:27 AM
ngunn I did ask the other day for someone to re-post an ... Sep 6 2006, 02:08 PM
ugordan QUOTE (ngunn @ Sep 6 2006, 03:08 PM) I di... Sep 6 2006, 02:15 PM
djellison Links to that place are not a good idea. Can peop... Sep 6 2006, 02:13 PM
ngunn QUOTE (djellison @ Sep 6 2006, 03:13 PM) ... Sep 6 2006, 02:31 PM
Themisto QUOTE (ngunn @ Sep 6 2006, 04:31 PM) Sorr... Sep 6 2006, 03:06 PM
djellison That's better
We used to worry about mention... Sep 6 2006, 03:10 PM
ngunn OK let's see if this works..
http://www.aaw-d... Sep 6 2006, 03:45 PM
tasp 3 intersecting ridges, all describing segments of ... Sep 6 2006, 06:47 PM
ngunn QUOTE (tasp @ Sep 6 2006, 07:47 PM) The f... Sep 7 2006, 08:51 AM
tasp Some of the criteria that seem to be needed for us... Sep 7 2006, 02:58 PM
ngunn QUOTE (tasp @ Sep 7 2006, 03:58 PM) Some ... Sep 7 2006, 03:45 PM
tasp We may find Iapetan like ridge structures on a per... Sep 7 2006, 03:03 PM
TritonAntares Hi,
before we should keep on speculating whether t... Sep 7 2006, 03:50 PM
ngunn QUOTE (TritonAntares @ Sep 7 2006, 04:50 ... Sep 8 2006, 10:44 AM
ugordan I have absolutely no idea on which internal proces... Sep 8 2006, 11:05 AM

ngunn QUOTE (ugordan @ Sep 8 2006, 12:05 PM) I ... Sep 8 2006, 12:04 PM


ugordan QUOTE (ngunn @ Sep 8 2006, 01:04 PM) On g... Sep 8 2006, 12:25 PM


ngunn QUOTE (ugordan @ Sep 8 2006, 01:25 PM) It... Sep 8 2006, 12:45 PM


ugordan Yeah, but why would it flatten itself along the eq... Sep 8 2006, 12:50 PM

Rob Pinnegar Two things today:
QUOTE (ugordan @ Sep 8 200... Sep 8 2006, 01:56 PM
ynyralmaen QUOTE (ngunn @ Sep 8 2006, 12:44 PM) So, ... Sep 8 2006, 11:34 AM

ngunn QUOTE (ynyralmaen @ Sep 8 2006, 12:34 PM)... Sep 8 2006, 12:12 PM
tasp QUOTE (ngunn @ Sep 8 2006, 05:44 AM) So, ... Sep 8 2006, 01:33 PM
Bill Harris This has been a fascinating discussion. Before Ca... Sep 8 2006, 12:56 PM
ngunn Hello Bill - nice to know it's not just the 4 ... Sep 8 2006, 01:18 PM
tasp QUOTE (ngunn @ Sep 8 2006, 08:18 AM) Hell... Sep 8 2006, 01:40 PM
tasp Some where here at UMSF is a nice map of Iapetus (... Sep 8 2006, 02:27 PM
tasp I will note that Iapetus is subject to the smalles... Sep 8 2006, 02:30 PM
ugordan However, the surface gravity at Iapetus is also va... Sep 8 2006, 02:38 PM
tasp I also point out that the New Solar System books... Sep 8 2006, 02:36 PM
tasp Virtually all solar system objects are believed to... Sep 8 2006, 02:52 PM
ngunn Is this the one? http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/... Sep 8 2006, 02:54 PM
tasp QUOTE (ngunn @ Sep 8 2006, 09:54 AM) Is t... Sep 8 2006, 02:59 PM
ugordan Iapetus is undeniably oblate, but the question is ... Sep 8 2006, 03:04 PM
tasp QUOTE (ugordan @ Sep 8 2006, 10:04 AM) Ia... Sep 9 2006, 05:31 AM
hendric I still don't see how the two divergent ridges... Sep 8 2006, 05:54 PM
TritonAntares QUOTE 37th DPS Meeting, 4-9 September 2005
Session... Sep 8 2006, 08:29 PM

tasp QUOTE (TritonAntares @ Sep 8 2006, 03:29 ... Sep 9 2006, 05:28 AM

ngunn QUOTE (TritonAntares @ Sep 8 2006, 09:29 ... Sep 9 2006, 08:59 AM

tasp QUOTE (ngunn @ Sep 9 2006, 03:59 AM) . . ... Sep 9 2006, 01:56 PM

ngunn QUOTE (tasp @ Sep 9 2006, 02:56 PM) I hav... Sep 9 2006, 09:56 PM
tasp QUOTE (hendric @ Sep 8 2006, 12:54 PM) I ... Sep 9 2006, 05:10 AM
tasp Also, check out the big elongated crater at 0 to 3... Sep 9 2006, 05:35 AM
tasp Just noticed I did not address moonlets below sync... Sep 9 2006, 09:00 PM
tasp I am thinking we aren't going to see an Iapeta... Sep 10 2006, 01:00 AM
tasp Speaking of New Horizons, how far out can it produ... Sep 10 2006, 01:11 AM
tasp Regarding perturbations of a possible Iapetan ring... Sep 10 2006, 05:08 PM
Michael Capobianco Well, I'm still a bit skeptical as well. For o... Sep 10 2006, 05:18 PM
tasp Of course, the most interesting bit of the ridge s... Sep 10 2006, 06:00 PM
ngunn So much to reply to (no, it isn't driving me t... Sep 10 2006, 08:05 PM
tasp QUOTE (ngunn @ Sep 10 2006, 03:05 PM) On ... Sep 11 2006, 02:42 AM![]() ![]() |
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