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Getting to 'Big Crater', A little premature speculation
Nix
post Sep 22 2006, 07:17 AM
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Me n'either, it's just too far. I might believe in it if ;

a - Victoria wasn't waiting here for us
b - The road up there is smooth all the way

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SFJCody
post Sep 22 2006, 07:37 AM
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I don't really believe it either, but if Opportunity ever gets to the point where it can be said to have 'done' Victoria crater, and if it is still mobile at that point, and if it's not trapped in the crater it would probably be worthwhile to extend the 'baseline' for measurements of horizontal compositional variation in the Meridiani bedrock by driving a long distance south-east (more or less the opposite direction from Eagle crater). Which just happens to be the direction of 'big crater'...
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ugordan
post Sep 22 2006, 07:56 AM
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QUOTE (SFJCody @ Sep 22 2006, 08:37 AM) *
... if it's not trapped in the crater ...

That's a BIG IF, if you ask me. I dunno, that V thing looks really steep, one has to wonder if Oppy'll be able to safely get in there in the first place!


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climber
post Sep 22 2006, 08:14 AM
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QUOTE (ugordan @ Sep 22 2006, 09:56 AM) *
That's a BIG IF, if you ask me. I dunno, that V thing looks really steep, one has to wonder if Oppy'll be able to safely get in there in the first place!

So far, in Meridianii we only know (or search) "under" the plain. If we can climb this hill, we'll have what we're missing : a view "above" the plain and we'll may be see how deep the standing water has been. This must definately be a goal for MRO...in case Oppy will not reach the hills wink.gif
Once again, take the distance from Eagle to Vicky, double this i.e about 15km, and you're at the hill. Not "that" far away.


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ugordan
post Sep 22 2006, 08:31 AM
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QUOTE (climber @ Sep 22 2006, 09:14 AM) *
Once again, take the distance from Eagle to Vicky, double this i.e about 15km, and you're at the hill. Not "that" far away.

Yeah, but consider how many more months/years that is. Is it really realistic to expect Oppy to live that long? While she's maybe getting smarter with time, she's certainly not getting any younger.


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SFJCody
post Sep 22 2006, 08:42 AM
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One more reason to be interested in going to this place: the rim of Big Crater (certainly the eastern rim, probably also the western rim, although it's hard to tell at this resolution) is not coated in blueberries- there's no hematite signal there! Whatever kind of bedrock it's made of is not the kind Oppy has seen to date...

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA05154.jpg
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Stephen
post Sep 22 2006, 08:45 AM
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QUOTE (djellison @ Sep 22 2006, 07:02 AM) *
Oh we've got to stop this smile.gif I'm getting excited about the sort of view we could have from there - and that's bad because I really can't imagine us getting there, realistically.

Doug

On the other hand, way back at Sol 1, or even Sol 90, would any of us have anticipated, realistically, that Opportunity would get as far as Victoria? Even the etched terrain seemed a long way of back thenl

If and when Opportunity leaves the Victoria it and the MER team (not to mention us!) will need another goal, and right now "Big Crater" seems no more impossible now that Victoria Crater was as a destination all those Sols ago.

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djellison
post Sep 22 2006, 08:49 AM
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QUOTE (Stephen @ Sep 22 2006, 09:45 AM) *
On the other hand, way back at Sol 1, or even Sol 90, would any of us have anticipated, realistically, that Opportunity would get as far as Victoria?


Once we had left Endurance - yes - realistically I thought that Victoria, if the terrain was navigable, was a genuine possibility.

However - looking SE from Victoria - I don't like the look of the terrain a great deal - there's no MOC NA imagery that I can see in that direction and we need that or HiRISE to judge what the navigability would be like.

Realistically - I think we could spend at least the next 300-500 sols exploring Victoria - THEN....let's see how the rover is doing.

Doug
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ustrax
post Sep 22 2006, 09:02 AM
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QUOTE (jamescanvin @ Sep 22 2006, 12:33 AM) *
Nice diagram Ustrax, a shame it's fiction! tongue.gif


I just got blinded with Helen's beauty... tongue.gif
Now we're getting somewhere with your great work James! smile.gif

Another implication, besides Oppy becoming a granny faster and faster, would be the funding for the time needed to perform such a saga...but hey! Who knows? rolleyes.gif

EDITED: We can work this a bit more... rolleyes.gif
James, I made a new version taking in account some of your directions and others...not so quite...
From the features marked what are those we can say, with no doubt at all, that are misplaced or are, truly, artifacts?:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ustrax3/troy2.jpg


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Stephen
post Sep 22 2006, 10:29 AM
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QUOTE (djellison @ Sep 22 2006, 08:49 AM) *
However - looking SE from Victoria - I don't like the look of the terrain a great deal - there's no MOC NA imagery that I can see in that direction and we need that or HiRISE to judge what the navigability would be like.

It's enough to make you wonder how terrestrial explorers of a non-mechanised kind ever managed to find their way around Earth before the advent of satellite imagery... rolleyes.gif

Having the MOC images has been nice (especially for Tesheiner's maps), but let's face it: they're a basically a luxury. They didn't stop Opportunity getting stuck at Purgatory and they were of limited use in determining--beforehand--what the actual nature of the etched terrain was like. They doubtless helped the Opportunity route planners attempt those long drives after Endurance, but the terrain itself soon spelt an end to those, imagery or no imagery. After that the rover and its planners more or less had to feel their way forward anyway. Only now that it has reached Victoria's annulus have the long drives resumed; and that has arguably had less to do with the orbital imagery than the flatness of the terrain evident to the rover's own eyes.

If the rover has the opportunity--pardon the pun smile.gif --to strike out into the martian equivalent of Terra Incognita, why not? It will not be as if it will be venturing out there entirely blind. The rovers do have their own eyes, after all. If it--or at least its drivers--get a little lost and have to backtrack a little (or maybe a lot, depending on the terrain), so what? As everybody, from Steve Squyres down, keeps reminding us: the rovers are into extra time now. It's not as if they are trying to beat some kind of deadline (as they were back in their first 90 days). Opportunity in particular is on what Hollywood would probably term a "road trip"; and with those the journey and what you learn along the way can sometimes be at least as important as getting to the desired destination.

QUOTE (djellison @ Sep 22 2006, 08:49 AM) *
Realistically - I think we could spend at least the next 300-500 sols exploring Victoria - THEN....let's see how the rover is doing.

Of course. Victoria first.

But that said like others I'm beginning to have doubts about whether the rover will actually be able to get inside Victoria--short of rolling off a clifftop. sad.gif And even then it may well find no bedrock to land on, just a slope of scree descending steeply to the dunefield on the crater floor.

Still, time will tell.

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Stephen
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ustrax
post Sep 22 2006, 10:39 AM
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QUOTE (Stephen @ Sep 22 2006, 11:29 AM) *
If the rover has the opportunity--pardon the pun smile.gif --to strike out into the martian equivalent of Terra Incognita, why not?


Great reading Stephen!
We are starting to dream of that crater beyond and I love the way that sounds... smile.gif
As imipak wisely said...: "Mad, mad, mad... you're all completely mad. I love it!"


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Stephen
post Sep 22 2006, 10:42 AM
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QUOTE (ustrax @ Sep 22 2006, 09:02 AM) *
I just got blinded with Helen's beauty... tongue.gif
Now we're getting somewhere with your great work James! smile.gif

Another implication, besides Oppy becoming a granny faster and faster, would be the funding for the time needed to perform such a saga...but hey! Who knows? rolleyes.gif

EDITED: We can work this a bit more... rolleyes.gif
James, I made a new version taking in account some of your directions and others...not so quite...
From the features marked what are those we can say, with no doubt at all, that are misplaced or are, truly, artifacts?:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ustrax3/troy2.jpg

Two points.

1) You left out F & G. I suggest F == Cassandra and G == Hector.

2) That should be "Ulysses" not "Ulisses". However, "Ulysses" was actually the Latin version of the Greek name "Odysseus". "Odysseus" is where the word "odyssey" comes from, a term that seems not inappropriate, I think, to be associated with Opportunity's trek. biggrin.gif

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Stephen
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ustrax
post Sep 22 2006, 11:13 AM
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QUOTE (Stephen @ Sep 22 2006, 11:42 AM) *
Two points.

1) You left out F & G. I suggest F == Cassandra and G == Hector.

2) That should be "Ulysses" not "Ulisses". However, "Ulysses" was actually the Latin version of the Greek name "Odysseus". "Odysseus" is where the word "odyssey" comes from, a term that seems not inappropriate, I think, to be associated with Opportunity's trek. biggrin.gif

======
Stephen


You're right, I've posted a wrong version...I corrected and used your suggestion trying to follow the legend's narrative:
So now we have:
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/ustrax3/troy3b.jpg
Agamemnon (I've seen his supposed death mask in Athens...Hypnotizing...) and his fleet (A) chasing Paris and Helen (cool.gif, on the right we have Priam the King (H) as the tallest peak, with his descendance aside, Cassandra (G) and Hector (F) on the left the one who killed him, Achilles (E)
Only Ulysses (D) is a bit misplaced...We have to study that... smile.gif
(Ulisses is the Portuguese way of writing it...)


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climber
post Sep 22 2006, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE (ustrax @ Sep 22 2006, 01:13 PM) *
(Ulisses is the Portuguese way of writing it...)

Y? wink.gif


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odave
post Sep 22 2006, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE (tim53 @ Sep 21 2006, 12:34 PM) *
...the IAU convention for naming craters on Mars would be named after a city on Earth with a population under 100,000.

Hey, Troy, MI, USA works!

Hmm...Google, Google

Darn. Already in use (look under "T") sad.gif


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