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MGS in Trouble, Formerly: MGS in safe mode
djellison
post Nov 13 2006, 06:38 PM
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Well - reading the logs for MODY and MRO - I think they've turned off the updates to the webpage as they have no radiated files since before the last MGS log entry

Doug
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Guest_Sunspot_*
post Nov 14 2006, 01:47 AM
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Still no contact yet

http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn10...rs-orbiter.html

Late on Wednesday, MRO will try to determine MGS's location by taking a picture with a low resolution camera. Using this information, MRO will take another image of MGS on Friday using its High Resolution Imaging Experiment (HiRISE) the most powerful camera ever sent to Mars.

The HiRISE image should be detailed enough to determine how MGS is oriented in space and how its solar arrays are positioned.
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nprev
post Nov 14 2006, 02:02 AM
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ohmy.gif Whoa! Now there's a powerful means of hopefully resolving the problem...the pics should eliminate many possible failure modes. Thanks for the update, Sunspot.


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Stu
post Nov 14 2006, 06:46 AM
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Typical. Frakking typical! mad.gif mad.gif

For years we've been getting sensational pictures from Mars Global Surveyor, breathtaking images of martian features, dust-storms, the whole planet itself. We've seen gullies, craters, valleys and gorges in more detail than ever before. The probe just reached its tenth anniversary, an amazing achievement...

All that with hardly a nod of the head from the BBC.

But now, following the usual "bad news from space is the only news worth covering" guidelines, this morning, Kate Silverton - bless her cute, punky hair, elfin face and trendy square framed glasses... okay, I'm a fan... - is telling everyone on Breakfast TV about the "ailing probe", trotting out the usual "lost in space" cliches.

Not happy. mad.gif


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paxdan
post Nov 14 2006, 08:47 AM
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QUOTE (Stu @ Nov 14 2006, 06:46 AM) *
Typical. Frakking typical!


MGS images Odyssey
Digital data puts Mars on Map
Mapping Mars
Its Springtime on Mars
MGS enters Phase 2
Glitch forces mars probe shut off 2005
Shadow of a Martian Moon
Image may be polar lander
Evening Clouds on a Martian Volcano
Mars more active than thought
Mars May be Changing
Earth as seen from Mars by MGS

I could go on, however, just one more link Exploring Mars: In depth

What's wrong with a bit of coverage from the beeb at what may be EOM?
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Borek
post Nov 14 2006, 11:45 AM
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QUOTE (Stu @ Nov 14 2006, 07:46 AM) *
Typical. Frakking typical! mad.gif mad.gif

For years we've been getting sensational pictures from Mars Global Surveyor, breathtaking images of martian features, dust-storms, the whole planet itself. We've seen gullies, craters, valleys and gorges in more detail than ever before. The probe just reached its tenth anniversary, an amazing achievement...

All that with hardly a nod of the head from the BBC.


You are overreacting. BBCis one of the few news agencies that give quite frequent updates about planetary missions on their web front page.

Borek
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Rakhir
post Nov 14 2006, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE (Sunspot @ Nov 14 2006, 04:47 AM) *

In the article above, they plan to try to activate MGS UHF transmitter, listen for the carrier from the MERs and relay the results thanks to Mars Odyssey.
But what prevents listening the MGS carrier directly from Mars Odyssey ?
Incompatible frequencies or orbits ?
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Stu
post Nov 14 2006, 02:31 PM
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QUOTE (Borek @ Nov 14 2006, 11:45 AM) *
You are overreacting. BBCis one of the few news agencies that give quite frequent updates about planetary missions on their web front page.

Borek


I am not over-reacting Borek. I was talking about TV coverage, probably should have clarified that (but come on, it was 6.30am!! blink.gif ) Re-read my post please, I didn't mention websites. The web coverage is usually excellent, and I probably should have mentioned that. My bad. But we all know that TV cverage does tend to descend, vulture-like, on bad news stories.


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Guest_Sunspot_*
post Nov 14 2006, 02:37 PM
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If they do manage to recover it, I doubt it will make the news at all.
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djellison
post Nov 14 2006, 02:39 PM
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Calm down boys....calm down.


Anyway - back to the actual topic in hand...

Odyssey or MRO to MGS UHF comms - I've not thought of that but it should be possible - however I imagine that the signal strength pattern from the UHF antenna would require a serious spacecraft manouver for it to work.

Doug
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Guest_Analyst_*
post Nov 14 2006, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 14 2006, 03:39 PM) *
Odyssey or MRO to MGS UHF comms - I've not thought of that but it should be possible - however I imagine that the signal strength pattern from the UHF antenna would require a serious spacecraft manouver for it to work.


Very interesting idea. But first you have to turn on the UHF receiver on MGS (including MOC). And you can do this via X-band only (I assume UHF and all instruments are off in safe mode.). I wonder if you can get commands to MGS via UHF from Odyssey or MRO. But why do this if you can command via X-band? So you need X-band commanding first, and if you have X-band commanding you don't need UHF (Except maybe to save power?).

Analyst
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djellison
post Nov 14 2006, 03:34 PM
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The thinking behind it is probably like this :

We are sending X-Band signals, but we do not know if it is getting them as we see no evidence in return

Most likely option - the vehicle is incapacitated and/or not recieving the signals.
Less likely - the vehicle is recieving them but for some reason can not transmit on X-Band

In the second case - if we uplink a command to transmit on UHF which Spirit/Opportunity might hear, then we will have evidence of life onboard MGS.

Basically, you start at the top of the fault tree and cross out all the different failure options until you've crossed them all out....at which point you go out, have a drink, toast MGS, and then move on.

Anyone who followed the MPL post-landing story will have been through this...it's painful, as you get to the increasingly unlikely failure modes, but on which you end up pinning more and more of your hopes.

Doug
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jaredGalen
post Nov 14 2006, 03:38 PM
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Using the UHF, is it to try and send something from the rovers to MGS and then try and relay via Odyssey or use the rovers to try and listen in to see if the MGS is transmitting anything via UHF and then relay the results via Odyssey?

I read an article that mentioned it this morning but can's see it now

Edit: Ah, never mind

QUOTE
The beacon signal would not contain any information, but its detection would at least indicate that the spacecraft is alive and able to respond to some commands. If the rovers heard the signal, they could notify another NASA orbiter


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djellison
post Nov 14 2006, 04:02 PM
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No - we'd have to use the DSN to command MGS to turn on it's UHF transmitter during a rover flyover...and then the rovers would report back to see if it worked....I MAY be wrong but I don't believe that MGS can be commanded via UHF.

Also - Stanford might get out their UHF antenna and see if a UHF carrier from MGS can be seen here on the ground....sometimes it gets a signal from Mars Orbiters, sometimes it doesn't.

Doug
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Guest_Analyst_*
post Nov 14 2006, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE (djellison @ Nov 14 2006, 04:34 PM) *
Less likely - the vehicle is recieving them but for some reason can not transmit on X-Band

In the second case - if we uplink a command to transmit on UHF which Spirit/Opportunity might hear, then we will have evidence of life onboard MGS.


Sadly not very likely sad.gif , but this makes sense. smile.gif

I followed MPL on CNN, all the press conferences, MGA pointing problems, sky scanning nada nada nada.

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