Blue Origins, update Options

[jabe]

Blue origins update..
go Bezos go
BTW hate the web page but neat videos.. From nasawatch resource

[djellison]

With such high gravity to fight against, and a nice thick atmosphere that's screaming out for chutes, parafoils etc.... landing with rockets on Earth just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Doug

[AndyG]

[L]anding with rockets on Earth just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I agree.

Using one of the fresh envelope-backs I got for Christmas, I see that retro-rocket-landing an Apollo CM from the drogue release altitude and speed, for example, would require something like a beefed-up AJ10-137 engine (massing around 4000kg), 31 seconds' thrust (1450 kg of fuel and oxidiser), all crammed into a 5800 kg mass capsule (!!). Naturally the engine would have to poke through the heat shield, which additionally complicates matters.

Comparing that to the (original) 245kg parachutes-and-drogues-and-deployment package, it's an absolute no-brainer.

<long pause>

...though, in its favour <whispering> it would look rather Heinleinian.

Andy

[mcaplinger]

Comparing that to the (original) 245kg parachutes-and-drogues-and-deployment package, it's an absolute no-brainer.

If you're never going to use the vehicle again, absolutely.

The arguments for VTVL all revolve around reusability and rapid turnaround. See, for example, http://www.thespacereview.com/article/412/1

I'm agnostic on the topic; like most engineering, there is no clear best solution. It's very dependent on the mission profile and on the logistical/economic assumptions.

[climber]

If you're never going to use the vehicle again, absolutely.
I'm agnostic on the topic; like most engineering, there is no clear best solution. It's very dependent on the mission profile and on the logistical/economic assumptions.

I agree but I also wonder if a Soyouz-like last seconds hard brake retro-rocket solution could be used. There's no need here to have a "smooth" hard-brake since there's nobody inside. Is they can get the retro rocket working in the good force vector and then inflate air bags so the stage doen't hit too hard, I bet it'll not be too much of an extra weight as compared to reusability. And it'll be an elegant solution.

[Bob Shaw]

I agree but I also wonder if a Soyouz-like last seconds hard brake retro-rocket solution could be used. There's no need here to have a "smooth" hard-brake since there's nobody inside. Is they can get the retro rocket working in the good force vector and then inflate air bags so the stage doen't hit too hard, I bet it'll not be too much of an extra weight as compared to reusability. And it'll be an elegant solution.

Or there's the scheme for the Energia boosters, which would have landed under parachutes on Rogallo Gemini-style outriggers (you know what I mean!) and with the final impact cushioned by solid rockets. That gear is what all the square lumps were on the side of the Energia boosters - sadly, of course, never to be used in anger. So a liquid fuel first-stage land recovery system for *big* vehicles has already been built (and the boosters continue to fly in the form of Tsyklon). I was told years ago by Gerry Webb (at that time he was very cosy with the ex-Soviet rocketeers) that the core stage could also be recovered, but I've never found any references to that elsewhere.

Bob Shaw

[mchan]

So a liquid fuel first-stage land recovery system for *big* vehicles has already been built (and the boosters continue to fly in the form of Tsyklon).

Ahh, Zenit?

[Bob Shaw]

Ahh, Zenit?

Absolutely. My rocketry database hit a nadir!

Nil Points!


Bob Shaw