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Helicopters on Mars?, (Forget the Mars Airplane) |
 Jan 13 2007, 05:39 PM
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#31
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 688 Joined: 20-April 05 From: Sweden Member No.: 273  |
QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Jan 13 2007, 05:28 PM)  Gyros, though, make a certain amount of sense, especially those which can jump-start into the air. They offer most of the advantages of a helicopter but are much simpler in execution. They are also seriously silly vehicles - I once saw a friend take off *across* a runway, just for fun! Bob Shaw Gyroplanes have very limited altitude capability (the world record is only about 8,000 meters I think). I can't imagine one getting airborne on Mars, and certainly not across a runway! tty |
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Jan 13 2007, 06:11 PM
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#32
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 Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2488 Joined: 17-April 05 From: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Member No.: 239 |
QUOTE (tty @ Jan 13 2007, 05:39 PM) Gyroplanes have very limited altitude capability (the world record is only about 8,000 meters I think). I can't imagine one getting airborne on Mars, and certainly not across a runway! tty Yes, Mars *is* pretty much a worst-case scenario for whirling things - but Titan, now there's the place: high atmospheric pressure, low gravity, light winds... Bob Shaw -------------------- Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
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Jan 13 2007, 06:41 PM
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#33
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 Merciless Robot Group: Admin Posts: 8789 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Titan would of course be far more rotary-friendly than Mars, but again the complexity & consequent low reliability of rotary flight mechanisms seems to imply that balloons are a much better solution for UMSF applications.
The only real advantages helos have over balloons are speed & precision positioning (disregarding for a moment the vibration in choppers!). I think that a trade-off study between the two modes of travel for a mission to Mars or Titan would overwhelmingly favor balloons, if for no other reason than that a balloon is likely to survive far longer. -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
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Jan 14 2007, 08:39 AM
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#34
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 Junior Member Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 20-September 06 From: Hanoi, Vietnam Member No.: 1164 |
There's an even more simple design than helos and balloons, the tumbleweed rover! You can find more information here http://www.spacescience.com/headlines/y2001/ast17aug_1.htm
If this kind of "rover" works on Mars I think it will work on Titan too, with some modifications. |
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Jan 14 2007, 11:08 AM
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#35
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1870 Joined: 20-February 05 Member No.: 174 |
The worst case scenario for flying is Triton. Surface pressure is measured in micro-bars <1 bar approx 1 atmosphere>, not millibars, like Mars.
Triton has a REAL atmosphere. You can see limb hazes and the gyser-like plumes jet straight up some kilometers before making a right angle and blowing horizontally with the wind at altitude. But that's somewhere near the lower limit for anything you can call a "sensible atmosphere". Mercury and the Moon have atmospheres, but they're collisionless gas molecules following parabolic trajectories through space between collisions with the surface. Exospheric atmospheres. I *think* some of the marginally spectroscopically detectable atmospheres on Europa, Ganymede, etc. are denser than exospheres so that there's molecular collisions above the surface, but they're not "real" atmospheres from a take-a-picture-and-see-it level like Triton's (and probably Pluto's) |
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Jan 17 2007, 09:26 PM
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#36
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 Senior Member Group: Moderator Posts: 2262 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Melbourne - Oz Member No.: 16 |
Moved posts about Aerobraking at Triton
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Jan 18 2007, 01:34 PM
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#37
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2488 Joined: 17-April 05 From: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Member No.: 239 |
I just came across a photo of Zubrin's Gashopper under test:
Bob Shaw -------------------- Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
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Jan 18 2007, 03:28 PM
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#38
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Founder Group: Chairman Posts: 14445 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 1 |
So did someone else on page 1 of this thread.
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Jan 18 2007, 04:55 PM
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#39
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 2488 Joined: 17-April 05 From: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Member No.: 239 |
QUOTE (djellison @ Jan 18 2007, 03:28 PM) So did someone else on page 1 of this thread. Doug: Flattery is the sincerest form of imitation! Please zap the offending wossisname. Bob Shaw -------------------- Remember: Time Flies like the wind - but Fruit Flies like bananas!
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Feb 13 2007, 07:31 PM
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#40
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 Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1229 Joined: 24-December 05 From: The blue one in between the yellow and red ones. Member No.: 618 |
Looks like somebody forgot to forget the Mars airplane! LINK
-------------------- My Grandpa goes to Mars every day and all I get are these lousy T-shirts!
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