My Assistant
Fast Interstellar Travel Issues |
Jan 12 2007, 02:01 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Merciless Robot ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 8791 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
If this thread's in the wrong place, please relocate...thanks!
Assuming for the sake of argument here that someday we'll have propulsion systems capable of propelling vehicles at a significant fraction of the speed of light, what kinds of technical challenges will be presented by the interstellar medium? Right out of the gate, I can't see how anything we might build could survive hitting so much as a dust grain at even 0.01C. Heavy forward shields have been proposed, but the jolts from such collisions even if the spacecraft isn't vaporized would seem a bit unsettling to the payload. Assuming that issue can be overcome and that we can actually go even faster (<0.5C), at what point would interstellar hydrogen become aerodynamically (or even hydrodynamically!) significant as far as drag? Would true starships actually have to look something like hypersonic aircraft, or even subs depending on relative hydrogen density? -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
|
|
|
|
![]() |
Jan 12 2007, 07:48 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Merciless Robot ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 8791 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Points noted, Bob. Problem is, as Helvick so ably articulated, that the kinetic energy release from a collision with even minute objects at these speeds is so large that it would almost certainly destroy a spacecraft even if it had a shield that could absorb the impact.
I'd think that a jolt of hundreds of thousands of Gs would result from such a collision. While the structure itself might survive if designed appropriately, I can't begin to imagine all the things that would happen to, for example, solder joints on the circuit boards. Unless the bus & payload electronics physically consisted of something like a giant diamond crystal with few (if any) mechanical interfaces like connectors, I just don't see the thing operating at nominal levels after the event. -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
|
|
|
|
Jan 12 2007, 10:04 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 402 Joined: 5-January 07 From: Manchester England Member No.: 1563 |
Give it all of the above, lasers, layerd areogel shields, small cross section, and include huge shock absorbers.
Perhaps trying to make one probe proof against all possible disasters is the wrong approach. If we have our unfeasibly huge power supply why not split it between a couple of dozen probes, take some basic precautions with each (aerogel shields, small cross section ect) and accept that at least some of them won't make it? If IEE comes to fruition it might open the door for missions to the interstellar medium that would tell us exactly what precautions are needed, and in what amount. Edit: nprev point about the power supply is well made, clearly it is this more than engineering issues which will be a showstopper for any mission to another star. Although not forever I hope. -------------------- |
|
|
|
Jan 13 2007, 02:51 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Merciless Robot ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 8791 Joined: 8-December 05 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 602 |
Perhaps trying to make one probe proof against all possible disasters is the wrong approach. If we have our unfeasibly huge power supply why not split it between a couple of dozen probes, take some basic precautions with each (aerogel shields, small cross section ect) and accept that at least some of them won't make it? That would be an excellent approach if it's affordable by the time that high-energy technology's available. IMHO, we sure don't want to launch our first interstellar Flagship-class equivalent mission without a few smaller, cheaper forays first. Pioneers necessarily must precede Galileos & Cassinis! EDIT: Here's a worst-case scenario thought. How about two spacecraft for the first interstellar mission? The first (leading) one is big & dumb. It consists of as much durable mass as we can fly, and its only real function is to act as a cosmic bulldozer, paving the way for spacecraft #2, which is smaller & smarter (the payload). #1 doesn't even have to decelerate as it approaches the target star; it's no longer needed when #2 begins deceleration, since the drive exhaust in this scenario would probably be energetic enough to zorch incoming dust particles along the line of flight. Another thing I like about this is that if #1 actually hits something any secondary debris is still probably traveling at or near the transit velocity (in the same inertial reference frame, anyhow), so #2's shielding probably doesn't have to be extremely robust. -------------------- A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
|
|
|
|
nprev Fast Interstellar Travel Issues Jan 12 2007, 02:01 PM
helvick Just to give you some simplistic ballpark numbers.... Jan 12 2007, 02:58 PM
nprev Thanks for the numbers, Helvick; interesting! ... Jan 12 2007, 03:24 PM
marsbug That would make much more sense than lugging tons ... Jan 12 2007, 04:35 PM
nprev Inefficient to be sure, but I was assuming that th... Jan 12 2007, 05:34 PM
Bob Shaw We've already seen effects back in the 1980s w... Jan 12 2007, 06:54 PM
Bob Shaw Remember that Giotto didn't just encounter smo... Jan 12 2007, 10:44 PM
Thu QUOTE (nprev @ Jan 13 2007, 09:51 AM) ...... Jan 13 2007, 11:02 AM

marsbug I've always liked the idea of propelling a spa... Jan 13 2007, 12:37 PM
Bob Shaw QUOTE (nprev @ Jan 13 2007, 02:51 AM) Tha... Jan 13 2007, 04:23 PM
nprev Well, Bob, if they were manned vessels then #1 wou... Jan 13 2007, 06:17 PM
Bob Shaw At EOM, when approaching the target solar system, ... Jan 13 2007, 11:39 PM
ngunn QUOTE (nprev @ Jan 13 2007, 06:17 PM) Thu... Jan 14 2007, 12:07 AM
nprev You know, I was thinking that too, but I also kept... Jan 14 2007, 02:10 AM
mchan QUOTE (nprev @ Jan 13 2007, 06:10 PM) the... Jan 14 2007, 03:06 AM
nprev QUOTE (mchan @ Jan 13 2007, 07:06 PM) If ... Jan 14 2007, 03:37 AM
Thu QUOTE (nprev @ Jan 14 2007, 10:37 AM) EDI... Jan 14 2007, 08:20 AM
marsbug QUOTE (Thu @ Jan 14 2007, 08:20 AM) Cons
... Jan 14 2007, 09:50 AM
deglr6328 I think we are neglecting a VERY important issue h... Jan 14 2007, 03:00 AM
Mongo QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Jan 14 2007, 03:00 AM)... Jan 14 2007, 07:20 PM
J.J. Lots of good ideas in this thread.
I also favor a... Jan 14 2007, 07:09 PM
deglr6328 Oops! I guess I did that wrong! Hey I was... Jan 15 2007, 01:00 AM
nprev Don't feel bad, Deglr; I was too lazy to do th... Jan 15 2007, 01:11 PM
Thu Nprev, I'm sorry for not mentioning it's a... Jan 15 2007, 02:39 PM
nprev Gotcha. But 0.1c translates into around 30,000 km/... Jan 15 2007, 03:16 PM
Bob Shaw Have a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... Jan 15 2007, 09:48 PM
nprev Thanks, Bob. I had just barely heard of the Centau... Jan 16 2007, 02:26 AM
marsbug There seems to be no shortage of ideas and enthusi... Jan 16 2007, 12:30 PM
Bob Shaw QUOTE (marsbug @ Jan 16 2007, 12:30 PM) T... Jan 16 2007, 02:33 PM
helvick QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Jan 16 2007, 02:33 PM) ... Jan 16 2007, 05:55 PM
tasp After the acceleration phase, one could simply fly... Jan 16 2007, 02:34 PM
edstrick It's abundantly clear from engineering concept... Jan 17 2007, 09:37 AM
djellison Several SETI related posts delete ( there is a thr... Jan 17 2007, 11:45 AM
marsbug also your bad to quote the whole of the preceeding... Jan 17 2007, 12:03 PM
Myran Some nice ideas have been presented here, but divi... Jan 18 2007, 05:59 PM
marsbug QUOTE (Myran @ Jan 18 2007, 05:59 PM) Som... Jan 18 2007, 09:45 PM
Bob Shaw The big problem with 'tiny' probes is the ... Jan 18 2007, 11:11 PM
edstrick The other problem with tiny probes are diffraction... Jan 19 2007, 09:11 AM
nprev Sure would be nice to figure out a way to stay awh... Jan 20 2007, 06:46 AM
djellison Twice this thread has entered tin-foil hat ground.... Jan 20 2007, 04:10 PM![]() ![]() |
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 15th December 2024 - 09:19 PM |
|
RULES AND GUIDELINES Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting. IMAGE COPYRIGHT |
OPINIONS AND MODERATION Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators. |
SUPPORT THE FORUM Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member. |
|