IPB
X   Site Message
(Message will auto close in 2 seconds)

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Fast Interstellar Travel Issues
nprev
post Jan 12 2007, 02:01 PM
Post #1


Merciless Robot
****

Group: Admin
Posts: 8791
Joined: 8-December 05
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 602



If this thread's in the wrong place, please relocate...thanks! smile.gif

Assuming for the sake of argument here that someday we'll have propulsion systems capable of propelling vehicles at a significant fraction of the speed of light, what kinds of technical challenges will be presented by the interstellar medium?

Right out of the gate, I can't see how anything we might build could survive hitting so much as a dust grain at even 0.01C. Heavy forward shields have been proposed, but the jolts from such collisions even if the spacecraft isn't vaporized would seem a bit unsettling to the payload.

Assuming that issue can be overcome and that we can actually go even faster (<0.5C), at what point would interstellar hydrogen become aerodynamically (or even hydrodynamically!) significant as far as drag? Would true starships actually have to look something like hypersonic aircraft, or even subs depending on relative hydrogen density?


--------------------
A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
nprev
post Jan 14 2007, 02:10 AM
Post #2


Merciless Robot
****

Group: Admin
Posts: 8791
Joined: 8-December 05
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 602



You know, I was thinking that too, but I also kept thinking that the entire vehicle would have to be pretty mechanically robust just to survive continuous acceleration up to cruise speed via the magic high-energy drive, so this would imply some very firm (and therefore kinetic-energy-transmissive) connections between the various sections of the Web.

However, what if the payload elements were very light & small themselves and therefore did not require a robust physical support structure? For example, we're really not far from nanoprocessors based on quantum principles...the only catch seems to be that optical & RF sensors have to have comparatively large surface areas, unless there are a lot of them working in a coordinated fashion al a TPF or the VLA. Catch # 2 then is that the whole Web would have to be functional upon arrival for nominal performance... sad.gif


--------------------
A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mchan
post Jan 14 2007, 03:06 AM
Post #3


Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 600
Joined: 26-August 05
Member No.: 476



QUOTE (nprev @ Jan 13 2007, 06:10 PM) *
the entire vehicle would have to be pretty mechanically robust just to survive continuous acceleration up to cruise speed ...

If it can withstand 1G, continuous acceleration for about 35 days will get it to 0.1c. The mechanical robustness would come from a structure that can store the volume and accelerate the mass of fuel required to run the engine for 35 days.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nprev
post Jan 14 2007, 03:37 AM
Post #4


Merciless Robot
****

Group: Admin
Posts: 8791
Joined: 8-December 05
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 602



QUOTE (mchan @ Jan 13 2007, 07:06 PM) *
If it can withstand 1G, continuous acceleration for about 35 days will get it to 0.1c. The mechanical robustness would come from a structure that can store the volume and accelerate the mass of fuel required to run the engine for 35 days.

...and 35 days of deceleration plus terminal manuevering as well. Thanks, Mchan.

Deglr, could you please post your source equations? That sure sounds like a scary possibility...this whole mission isn't gonna be easy for somebody, someday... sad.gif

EDIT: The CMBR is non-directional, right? Therefore, the only "enrichment" of the radiation would be directly along the flightpath of the spacecraft with some sort of probabilistic distribution (normal, Gaussian, etc.); is the relative "density" of it along an interstellar trajectory significant enough to induce undesirable effects?

AFAIK, the same argument would also apply to cosmic rays, though those that the ship would encounter with flight paths directly opposite to the ship's vector would be fearsome in terms of energy; maybe these deserve some thought!


--------------------
A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- nprev   Fast Interstellar Travel Issues   Jan 12 2007, 02:01 PM
- - helvick   Just to give you some simplistic ballpark numbers....   Jan 12 2007, 02:58 PM
- - nprev   Thanks for the numbers, Helvick; interesting! ...   Jan 12 2007, 03:24 PM
|- - marsbug   That would make much more sense than lugging tons ...   Jan 12 2007, 04:35 PM
- - nprev   Inefficient to be sure, but I was assuming that th...   Jan 12 2007, 05:34 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   We've already seen effects back in the 1980s w...   Jan 12 2007, 06:54 PM
- - nprev   Points noted, Bob. Problem is, as Helvick so ably ...   Jan 12 2007, 07:48 PM
|- - marsbug   Give it all of the above, lasers, layerd areogel s...   Jan 12 2007, 10:04 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Remember that Giotto didn't just encounter smo...   Jan 12 2007, 10:44 PM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (marsbug @ Jan 12 2007, 02:04 PM) P...   Jan 13 2007, 02:51 AM
|- - Thu   QUOTE (nprev @ Jan 13 2007, 09:51 AM) ......   Jan 13 2007, 11:02 AM
||- - marsbug   I've always liked the idea of propelling a spa...   Jan 13 2007, 12:37 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (nprev @ Jan 13 2007, 02:51 AM) Tha...   Jan 13 2007, 04:23 PM
- - nprev   Well, Bob, if they were manned vessels then #1 wou...   Jan 13 2007, 06:17 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   At EOM, when approaching the target solar system, ...   Jan 13 2007, 11:39 PM
|- - ngunn   QUOTE (nprev @ Jan 13 2007, 06:17 PM) Thu...   Jan 14 2007, 12:07 AM
- - nprev   You know, I was thinking that too, but I also kept...   Jan 14 2007, 02:10 AM
|- - mchan   QUOTE (nprev @ Jan 13 2007, 06:10 PM) the...   Jan 14 2007, 03:06 AM
|- - nprev   QUOTE (mchan @ Jan 13 2007, 07:06 PM) If ...   Jan 14 2007, 03:37 AM
|- - Thu   QUOTE (nprev @ Jan 14 2007, 10:37 AM) EDI...   Jan 14 2007, 08:20 AM
|- - marsbug   QUOTE (Thu @ Jan 14 2007, 08:20 AM) Cons ...   Jan 14 2007, 09:50 AM
- - deglr6328   I think we are neglecting a VERY important issue h...   Jan 14 2007, 03:00 AM
|- - Mongo   QUOTE (deglr6328 @ Jan 14 2007, 03:00 AM)...   Jan 14 2007, 07:20 PM
- - J.J.   Lots of good ideas in this thread. I also favor a...   Jan 14 2007, 07:09 PM
- - deglr6328   Oops! I guess I did that wrong! Hey I was...   Jan 15 2007, 01:00 AM
- - nprev   Don't feel bad, Deglr; I was too lazy to do th...   Jan 15 2007, 01:11 PM
|- - Thu   Nprev, I'm sorry for not mentioning it's a...   Jan 15 2007, 02:39 PM
- - nprev   Gotcha. But 0.1c translates into around 30,000 km/...   Jan 15 2007, 03:16 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   Have a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...   Jan 15 2007, 09:48 PM
- - nprev   Thanks, Bob. I had just barely heard of the Centau...   Jan 16 2007, 02:26 AM
|- - marsbug   There seems to be no shortage of ideas and enthusi...   Jan 16 2007, 12:30 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   QUOTE (marsbug @ Jan 16 2007, 12:30 PM) T...   Jan 16 2007, 02:33 PM
|- - helvick   QUOTE (Bob Shaw @ Jan 16 2007, 02:33 PM) ...   Jan 16 2007, 05:55 PM
- - tasp   After the acceleration phase, one could simply fly...   Jan 16 2007, 02:34 PM
- - edstrick   It's abundantly clear from engineering concept...   Jan 17 2007, 09:37 AM
- - djellison   Several SETI related posts delete ( there is a thr...   Jan 17 2007, 11:45 AM
|- - marsbug   also your bad to quote the whole of the preceeding...   Jan 17 2007, 12:03 PM
- - Myran   Some nice ideas have been presented here, but divi...   Jan 18 2007, 05:59 PM
|- - marsbug   QUOTE (Myran @ Jan 18 2007, 05:59 PM) Som...   Jan 18 2007, 09:45 PM
|- - Bob Shaw   The big problem with 'tiny' probes is the ...   Jan 18 2007, 11:11 PM
- - edstrick   The other problem with tiny probes are diffraction...   Jan 19 2007, 09:11 AM
- - nprev   Sure would be nice to figure out a way to stay awh...   Jan 20 2007, 06:46 AM
- - djellison   Twice this thread has entered tin-foil hat ground....   Jan 20 2007, 04:10 PM


Closed TopicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 15th December 2024 - 09:19 PM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is funded by the Planetary Society. Please consider supporting our work and many other projects by donating to the Society or becoming a member.