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Nature of Victoria's dark streaks, swept clean, deposited, or other?
dvandorn
post Apr 3 2007, 05:12 PM
Post #316


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Now that we're finally about to do a detailed inspection of the darkest of the dark streaks emanating from the north-northeast portion of the crater rim, it's time for final speculations before we know the truth of the matter.

I'm in the clean-sweep camp. The large-scale orbital observations make these streaks appear almost definitely of aeolian origin -- the manner in which the streaks feather along the edges, and the way in which they curve off as they extend out from the crater, are all consistent with wind/ground interactions.

Observations of the lighter, western streak seem to show more visible concretions right up on the surface. If this holds true of the darker streak, I think that proves the clean-sweep theory.

Think of it this way -- if you packed pebbles and dry dust as a pavement and then let the wind strip away at this surface, the dust would blow off and the pebbles would remain. What dust remained would sit in the lee of the pebbles.

This seems to be exactly what we're seeing in the first dark streak -- the lighter soil component has been blown away entirely, and the darker component (probably eroded concretion material) has been mostly blown away but its remnants sit in the lee of the concretions.

I would expect that any depositional streak would appear as dust or fine-grained soils which cover over the materials we see on the surface outside of the streaks. That's *not* what we're seeing.

In addition, I'd have to treat any suggestion that the blueberries themselves are being blown out of the crater to form the streaks with an awful lot of skepticism. Martian winds aren't strong enough to move the relatively large-and-heavy concretions along level ground -- it would be absolutely impossible for these thin-air winds to have blown them entirely out of the crater and up to a crater diameter's distance away.

Now, if the MIs in the darker streak show that dark dust is consistently filleted on the upwind side of the concretions, and shadowed with less dust downwind of the concretions, *that* would be an indication that the streaks are depositional. But, so far, that's not what we're seeing.

-the other Doug


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“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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Posts in this topic
- dvandorn   Nature of Victoria's dark streaks   Apr 3 2007, 05:12 PM
- - dvandorn   I think we *have* seen a great example of saltatio...   Apr 22 2007, 06:37 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   There does seem to be the phenomenon of brighter s...   Apr 22 2007, 06:48 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   I am having trouble figuring out which direction t...   Apr 22 2007, 07:00 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   On the topic of diffinitive evidence... If we saw...   Apr 22 2007, 07:06 PM
- - CosmicRocker   Ed: I agree. In Horton's calibration target ...   Apr 22 2007, 08:36 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (CosmicRocker @ Apr 22 2007, 08:36 ...   Apr 23 2007, 12:57 AM
- - Floyd   Thanks Horton and Stu--You both contribute great t...   Apr 22 2007, 09:49 PM
- - helvick   Stu, There are definitely dark areas in the image...   Apr 22 2007, 09:49 PM
- - Phil Stooke   Stu said "Sorry, am I looking at completely d...   Apr 22 2007, 09:50 PM
|- - Stu   QUOTE (Phil Stooke @ Apr 22 2007, 09:50 P...   Apr 22 2007, 10:01 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   Nice Stu. You do have a way with words...   Apr 22 2007, 09:51 PM
- - helvick   When I look at a the the full original MRO colour ...   Apr 22 2007, 10:50 PM
- - Stu   Thanks for the very considered response Helvick, m...   Apr 22 2007, 11:07 PM
- - fredk   Now I'm confused. I've always thought tha...   Apr 23 2007, 12:15 AM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 22 2007, 08:15 PM) ......   Apr 23 2007, 04:25 AM
- - CosmicRocker   It is difficult to imagine windblown, blueberry ri...   Apr 23 2007, 04:40 AM
- - Edward Schmitz   This will be my contribution to the pandemonium fo...   Apr 23 2007, 08:30 AM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ Apr 23 2007, 08:3...   Apr 23 2007, 02:58 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ Apr 23 2007, 04:3...   Apr 23 2007, 04:53 PM
- - Stu   Actually she seems to be pretty close to the edge ...   Apr 23 2007, 11:07 AM
- - Stu   And finally... Right, talk among yourselves, I...   Apr 23 2007, 01:01 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   the berries already look pretty dark to me. How m...   Apr 23 2007, 05:00 PM
- - Gray   Edward, I'm not trying to argue one way or the...   Apr 23 2007, 11:10 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   Gray, I'm not sure... Did you open the image...   Apr 23 2007, 11:43 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ Apr 23 2007, 07:4...   Apr 24 2007, 05:48 AM
- - Gray   Edward, Thanks I did miss the earlier post. I thi...   Apr 24 2007, 03:03 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Gray @ Apr 24 2007, 11:03 AM) My g...   Apr 24 2007, 04:01 PM
- - fredk   Nice new images showing the appearance of light du...   Apr 24 2007, 03:43 PM
- - dvandorn   Okay, now I'm having one heck of a time trying...   Apr 24 2007, 05:15 PM
- - fredk   Dvandorn, I believe we have seasonal wind variatio...   Apr 24 2007, 05:32 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   I was looking at your post, fredk. Something caug...   Apr 24 2007, 06:16 PM
- - Juramike   Looking carefully at the picture of Alicante that ...   Apr 24 2007, 07:14 PM
- - fredk   Mike, you may be right, but it might just be due t...   Apr 24 2007, 07:36 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   I'm gonna have to agree with mike. There seem...   Apr 24 2007, 08:27 PM
- - atomoid   Sand grain movement, hopefully not requiring an ai...   Apr 24 2007, 10:20 PM
- - Floyd   It may be impossible because of different viewing ...   Apr 24 2007, 11:34 PM
- - fredk   Horton did this a little while back.   Apr 25 2007, 12:44 AM
- - WindyT   Are fines coming out of the crater responsible for...   Apr 25 2007, 05:05 PM
- - atomoid   dune layering on the plains consisting of fines bl...   Apr 25 2007, 10:32 PM
|- - WindyT   QUOTE (atomoid @ Apr 25 2007, 10:32 PM) d...   Apr 26 2007, 04:58 AM
- - fredk   From this thread, there was recently a podcast fea...   Apr 28 2007, 03:13 PM
- - CosmicRocker   Well now...that's interesting, isn't it? ...   Apr 29 2007, 06:31 AM
- - Stu   Cosmic, How do you get "we do know that it...   Apr 29 2007, 06:38 AM
- - djellison   The ambiguity is in the fact that a scientist is s...   Apr 29 2007, 06:42 AM
|- - Stu   QUOTE (djellison @ Apr 29 2007, 06:42 AM)...   Apr 29 2007, 07:03 AM
- - fredk   Stu, I haven't been as pessimistic as that. J...   Apr 29 2007, 03:18 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (fredk @ Apr 29 2007, 03:18 PM) Sti...   May 1 2007, 06:10 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (fredk @ May 1 2007, 02:10 PM) Depo...   May 1 2007, 06:45 PM
|- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ May 1 2007, 11:45 ...   May 1 2007, 07:01 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ May 1 2007, 03:01...   May 1 2007, 07:11 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ May 1 2007, 03:01...   May 1 2007, 08:10 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ May 1 2007, 04:10 ...   May 1 2007, 08:21 PM
|- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ May 1 2007, 01:21 ...   May 1 2007, 08:42 PM
- - Stu   Not really being pessimistic Fred, just think it...   Apr 29 2007, 03:31 PM
|- - dvandorn   QUOTE (Stu @ Apr 29 2007, 10:31 AM) ...Op...   Apr 29 2007, 04:13 PM
- - CosmicRocker   QUOTE (Stu @ Apr 29 2007, 01:38 AM) How d...   Apr 29 2007, 05:22 PM
- - Stu   Ah, I see what you meant now CR, thanks. I thought...   Apr 29 2007, 06:51 PM
- - Stu   To quote an Olde English folk song from days of yo...   May 1 2007, 06:19 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Stu @ May 1 2007, 02:19 PM) To quo...   May 1 2007, 06:52 PM
|- - Stu   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ May 1 2007, 06:52 ...   May 1 2007, 07:24 PM
|- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE (Stu @ May 1 2007, 12:24 PM) St...   May 1 2007, 07:49 PM
- - Juramike   So if future HiRise passes see the streaks fade, w...   May 1 2007, 06:36 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Juramike @ May 1 2007, 02:36 PM) S...   May 1 2007, 07:04 PM
- - dvandorn   Steve has spoken. Let no mere mortal question... ...   May 1 2007, 07:04 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (dvandorn @ May 1 2007, 03:04 PM) S...   May 1 2007, 07:14 PM
- - Juramike   QUOTE (WindyT @ Apr 25 2007, 01:05 PM) Ar...   May 1 2007, 07:41 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (Juramike @ May 1 2007, 03:41 PM) D...   May 1 2007, 07:54 PM
|- - Juramike   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ May 1 2007, 03:54 ...   May 1 2007, 08:02 PM
- - Pavel   QUOTE Meanwhile, on the other side of the planet, ...   May 1 2007, 08:20 PM
|- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE (Pavel @ May 1 2007, 01:20 PM) Stev...   May 1 2007, 08:46 PM
- - djellison   The same strong winds that carry the heavier sand ...   May 1 2007, 08:45 PM
|- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE (djellison @ May 1 2007, 01:45 PM) ...   May 1 2007, 08:56 PM
||- - djellison   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ May 1 2007, 09:56...   May 1 2007, 09:05 PM
||- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (djellison @ May 1 2007, 05:05 PM) ...   May 1 2007, 09:08 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (djellison @ May 1 2007, 04:45 PM) ...   May 1 2007, 09:02 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (djellison @ May 1 2007, 04:45 PM) ...   May 1 2007, 09:11 PM
|- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE (djellison @ May 1 2007, 01:45 PM) ...   May 1 2007, 09:25 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ May 1 2007, 10:25...   May 1 2007, 09:30 PM
|- - atomoid   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ May 1 2007, 02:25...   May 1 2007, 10:55 PM
- - djellison   I don't pretend to have all the answers, other...   May 1 2007, 09:24 PM
- - Stu   I thought we were all just having a good natured k...   May 1 2007, 09:31 PM
- - Edward Schmitz   People seem to want there to be some reason that t...   May 1 2007, 09:40 PM
|- - djellison   QUOTE (Edward Schmitz @ May 1 2007, 10:40...   May 1 2007, 10:07 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (djellison @ May 1 2007, 10:07 PM) ...   May 1 2007, 10:27 PM
|- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE (djellison @ May 1 2007, 03:07 PM) ...   May 1 2007, 11:54 PM
- - fredk   Wow! I wasn't expecting my posting of Squ...   May 1 2007, 10:15 PM
|- - centsworth_II   QUOTE (fredk @ May 1 2007, 06:15 PM) I ha...   May 1 2007, 11:07 PM
|- - fredk   QUOTE (centsworth_II @ May 1 2007, 11:07 ...   May 1 2007, 11:29 PM
|- - Edward Schmitz   QUOTE (fredk @ May 1 2007, 04:29 PM) Oops...   May 2 2007, 12:06 AM
- - MarsIsImportant   I'm happy that depostion is at least part of t...   May 1 2007, 10:20 PM
- - djellison   Well - there has to be as much material moved away...   May 1 2007, 10:24 PM
- - centsworth_II   Pun intended? "As this rover continued to ...   May 1 2007, 11:14 PM
- - centsworth_II   http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/particle-sizes-d...   May 2 2007, 12:32 AM
- - CosmicRocker   Oh great. "You snooze, you lose," as th...   May 2 2007, 05:03 AM
- - Stu   If you thought the dark streaks at Victoria were s...   May 11 2007, 06:24 PM
- - Reckless   The streaks look cool. The area looks very frosty...   May 11 2007, 06:38 PM
- - fredk   Clearly depositional. Seriously, it's ...   May 11 2007, 06:42 PM
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