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Targets for LRO
climber
post Jul 10 2009, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jul 10 2009, 08:54 PM) *
Yes, but we had six Apollo landings, we still have opportunities.

Except we are 10 days away from july 20th


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jmknapp
post Jul 10 2009, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (Zvezdichko @ Jul 10 2009, 03:05 PM) *
And when the place will be in total darkness.


Ah--of course. ohmy.gif

I made an animation of the LRO passes over the Apollo 11 site, using the "mission baseline v8" data given at http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/downloads.html. That baseline was for the original launch date of July 17, & so is about 1 day ahead of schedule. I just figured out how to add fixed points like the Apollo sites to the map projection & this is a first cut:

http://cboh.org/~jmk/lro_apollo11.mpg (54MB mpg file).

I put in all 50 primary LRO targets into the model, but only the handful visible on these ~2 orbits come up.

Joe


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Paul Fjeld
post Jul 11 2009, 02:59 AM
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VERY cool, Joe!

So (just thinking out loud while I run around my cylinder, punching the air :-) the day late means that LRO will be roughly 13 degrees east of the target compared to your LRO_Cockpit view? Looking at the V8 data, the LRO orbit traverses ~12 degrees of Longitude per day? So tomorrow, the cameras should be passing over the Apollo 11 site with a nice 40 degree western sun (or so) and be baked out and focussed. Maybe a shot from 120km will reveal something neat that can be released with appropriate hoopla in the next week or so?

EDIT: I see now that LRO is about to pass over the Apollo 17 site with an even more dramatic sun angle. From 120 km high, the Descent Stage structure (not including the gear) will be nearly 4 pixels wide; the low sun shadow should be considerably more than that. Hope those cameras are baked out and ready!

2nd EDIT: I just read the previous couple of pages and see y'all had figured this out already. Feel a little silly...
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jmknapp
post Jul 11 2009, 04:22 PM
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QUOTE (Paul Fjeld @ Jul 10 2009, 10:59 PM) *
So (just thinking out loud while I run around my cylinder, punching the air :-) the day late means that LRO will be roughly 13 degrees east of the target compared to your LRO_Cockpit view?


Glad you got the musical reference! Going by the v8 data, I get 12.94 degrees/day in the commissioning orbit (and 13.13 degrees/day in the mapping orbit). So that amounts to 360 degrees in about 27.4 days. I suppose that makes it sun-synchronous? BTW, assuming that LRO passes over the Apollo 11 site around 4am tomorrow UT (by my calc) the sun will be at around 10 degrees elevation.


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Guest_Zvezdichko_*
post Jul 11 2009, 04:31 PM
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Can't wait to see the new photos!
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Paul Fjeld
post Jul 11 2009, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE (jmknapp @ Jul 11 2009, 11:22 AM) *
I suppose that makes it sun-synchronous?

I don't think so. The beta angle is supposed to shift so that by the time LRO is going over the (South?) pole at the time of maximal lighting (summer solstice), it is as near to zero as possible (within some 10 degrees or so) - which was the driver for the launch window. The idea being that they needed passes over the permanently shadowed areas of a pole when those shadows were minimal(?). I am certain the beta angle changes completely through the whole mission or they wouldn't need to do a 180 yaw at the midway point to get the solar arrays shifted to the other side. Plus you wouldn't need that beta gimbal joint on the arrays.
QUOTE
BTW, assuming that LRO passes over the Apollo 11 site around 4am tomorrow UT (by my calc) the sun will be at around 10 degrees elevation.

That will make for some really great images! Much better than 40. The LM shadow will be >so< obvious - I'm sure we'll see the Reflector and Seismometer - maybe even the flag will be a pixel if it did in fact fall over... whet our appetites for the low orbit passes!
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Guest_Zvezdichko_*
post Jul 11 2009, 05:43 PM
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You forget something. The flag was made of nylon. I'm sure there's only the pole left. The rest is ashes.

Plus, the resolution won't be that good.
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Paul Fjeld
post Jul 11 2009, 06:53 PM
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You could be right about the flag - I still harbor a hope that the nylon will not have disintegrated. But the resolution from that altitude is about 1.2 meters per pixel, so if there is a bleached flag flat on the surface, we should see it.

I just googled the specs on Nylon, for what it's worth, and one site (Beaver Manufacturing Co.!) says it is resistant to dry heat but degrades at prolonged exposure of 180 degrees C. The max temperature on the lunar surface is less than 150 degrees C, no?

But I have no idea if it is that simple a calc for the Nylon on the moon over 40 years of solar cycles...
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John Moore
post Jul 11 2009, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE
I was just looking on line for a broader view of the "Taurus Littrow" area & couldn't really find one


ASU is always a wonderful resource for such images -- the zoom feature, literaly, puts you on the surface smile.gif

Checked out Littrow region -- see here

John
Moon Site
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Guest_Sunspot_*
post Jul 12 2009, 12:01 PM
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The LRO website seems to be really temperamental....
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Guest_Zvezdichko_*
post Jul 12 2009, 12:07 PM
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QUOTE (Sunspot @ Jul 12 2009, 12:01 PM) *
The LRO website seems to be really temperamental....


Yes, really... goes down regularly.
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jmknapp
post Jul 12 2009, 01:57 PM
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My s.o. took a picture of the moon this morning with her camera:



I put a red dot at the Apollo 11 landing site--looks like a nice low sun angle if they took the shot.


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ilbasso
post Jul 13 2009, 12:12 AM
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I think I could have seen the flag if it wasn't for that pesky red dot!

Also, remember that Buzz Aldrin says that the last thing he saw of the landing site during ascent was the flag blowing over in the ascent engine's exhaust plume.


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Jonathan Ward
Manning the LCC at http://www.apollolaunchcontrol.com
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Guest_Zvezdichko_*
post Jul 13 2009, 12:26 AM
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OK, several amateur pics from me, too:

http://www.space-bg.org/snimki/luna/moon1.JPG

http://www.space-bg.org/snimki/luna/moon2.JPG

http://www.space-bg.org/snimki/luna/moon3.JPG

12-jul-09/10:50 AM GMT...

Call me ignorant, but I really can't identify the landing site of Apollo 11. Not that it's the best quality.
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SpaceListener
post Jul 13 2009, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE (jmknapp @ Jul 12 2009, 07:57 AM) *
My s.o. took a picture of the moon this morning with her camera:

Good! You answered me what I was searching about the Moon phase when Apollo 11 landed on Moon.
I knew that the Moon was either as waxing crescent or waning crescent. Now I see it.

That time is very nice for visual effects with contrasts of light.
A little question of OT, What about was the temperature on the Moon surface during the astronauts external
walk activities?
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