My Assistant
Stern Looks for Way Out of NASA's Budget Squeeze |
Jun 9 2007, 02:39 AM
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Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1018 Joined: 29-November 05 From: Seattle, WA, USA Member No.: 590 |
Science 1 June 2007:
Vol. 316. no. 5829, p. 1269 News of the Week SPACE SCIENCE: Stern Looks for Way Out of NASA's Budget Squeeze Andrew Lawler His $5.4 billion budget is stretched thin, but rather than cancel space projects nearing launch or ask for more money, NASA's new science chief Alan Stern says he intends to beef up lunar science, champion smaller and less complex spacecraft, and insist on hard-nosed cost estimates before larger missions can win approval. Full article: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/316/5829/1269a I especially liked this line: "I don't have to kill any missions," he insists. But he said NASA will consider firing those principal investigators in charge of missions that spiral out of control. |
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Sep 19 2007, 05:06 PM
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 172 Joined: 17-March 06 Member No.: 709 |
NASA has convened the NOSSE committee to review future Space Science
options, including how to shape the next AO for New Frontiers. A recent letter from Beta Reebe and Warren Buck, who are on the committee, discussed some of the issues concerning future New Frontiers missions. Here is a link to that letter - http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/nosse_letter.pdf You will notice toward the end of the letter that they ask whether mid-size Mars missions should be allowed to be offered for New Frontiers projects. My firm reply would be NO! Please do not allow Mars missions to engulf any more of the Space Science budget. As Alan Stern recently pointed out, Mars exploration already consumes almost HALF of NASA's Space Science funds. The other half is devoted to ALL of the rest of the Solar system! I'm sure that anyone of us could think of 10 interesting missions to places besides Mars. Don't get me wrong - I like Mars as much as anyone. However, I also believe that it should not account for any more of NASA's unmanned exploration effort than it already does. In fact, if there is a need for more robotic probes to Mars than is now planned, I propose that it come from the Constellation budget. I'm sure that there will be a need for precursor missions for manned landings, and these could serve double duty as science missions. Another Phil |
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Sep 19 2007, 05:27 PM
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2530 Joined: 20-April 05 Member No.: 321 |
The link doesn't work, but this small modification worked for me:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/opag/nosse_letter.pdf I agree wholeheartedly on the Mars issue, although I think we need an even more detailed policy principle than to say that Mars should perpetually consume 50%, or 40%, or 25%, etc., of the budget. I think we should see the Mars emphasis that somewhat goes back to the failed Mars Explorer and continues to the present day as what is probably a temporary (if decades-long) bump in Mars emphasis in order to address specific science goals that are of particular interest and that have therefore garnered extra attention to Mars. But the point is to seek answers to those questions, not to emphasize Mars above all others until we can emphasize it no more. We could launch 100 more missions to Mars this century and still know it far less well than we know Arizona. But what is the goal? In science, we can always say that knowing more about Mars is better (true), but the opportunity cost needs to be addressed. I believe that if you never give someone a budget or a deadline, at least an implicit one, you never get results. The Mars program has no incentive to answer the questions, and there is even programmatic incentive for investigators to dally around the big questions, keeping Mars the top funding draw into perpetuity. I'd like to see a Mars program that identifies its goals, identifies a proposed, if tentative exploration architecture for meeting those goals, and a firm expectation that when that architecture has run its course, the gravy train for Mars will no longer be assured (unless new or ongoing conditions further increase the interest in Mars relative to the rest of the solar system).
Reason for edit: Removed quote of entire last post.
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Sep 19 2007, 05:55 PM
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![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3419 Joined: 9-February 04 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Member No.: 15 |
I'd like to see a Mars program that identifies its goals, identifies a proposed, if tentative exploration architecture for meeting those goals, and a firm expectation that when that architecture has run its course, the gravy train for Mars will no longer be assured (unless new or ongoing conditions further increase the interest in Mars relative to the rest of the solar system). Ah, but this assumes that the bureaucracy can agree on an exploration strategy (i.e., a set of goals) upon which to design an architecture. Are we trying to find signs of extant life on Mars? Are we looking for signs of extinct life (paleofossils, etc.)? Are we trying to gather all of the information needed to support a manned landing? A colony? Do we require the knowledge needed to manufacture consumables and fuels from indigenous sources? Or do we just want to better constrain our theories of the origin and history of Mars? I think you'll all agree, the amount of money needed to achieve the goals associated with the various broad-brush strategies I mentioned above vary just as wildly as the strategies. Anyone care to guess how long it will take for the American government (or any government, for that matter) to agree on, and commit to, any of these strategies? Or how long any government will remain committed to any of them? Until that happens, scientists and engineers have to keep playing the best games available to get *any* missions designed, developed, built and flown. I can't fault anyone for seeking out any and every means possible to get that done. When NASA, or ESA, or JAXA, or anyone else can show that they can not only agree on a strategy but stick to such a strategy for more than two or three years at a time, I'll agree with you two. Until then, I suppose we'll just continue along doing things the old-fashioned, chaotic way. -the other Doug -------------------- “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
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Greg Hullender Stern Looks for Way Out of NASA's Budget Squeeze Jun 9 2007, 02:39 AM
nprev I don't envy him this. Budget control is damn ... Jun 9 2007, 02:55 AM
ngunn QUOTE (nprev @ Jun 9 2007, 03:55 AM) I do... Jun 9 2007, 09:37 PM
Greg Hullender There's a difference between research and engi... Jun 10 2007, 04:19 AM
MaxSt QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Jun 9 2007, 11:19... Jun 10 2007, 10:51 PM
nprev Good observations, Greg.
I'd say that it rea... Jun 10 2007, 04:36 AM
djellison I know just how Alan feels - I had £5000 to do a c... Jun 10 2007, 10:06 AM
Greg Hullender Using new technologies for the first time -- espec... Jun 10 2007, 02:38 PM
Greg Hullender Folks who know the math better than I do tell me n... Jun 11 2007, 03:25 AM
djellison Sounds like your advocating a progam of only very ... Jun 11 2007, 06:59 AM
mchan QUOTE (djellison @ Jun 10 2007, 11:59 PM)... Jun 11 2007, 08:40 AM

helvick QUOTE (mchan @ Jun 11 2007, 09:40 AM) On ... Jun 11 2007, 02:23 PM

mchan QUOTE (helvick @ Jun 11 2007, 07:23 AM) I... Jun 13 2007, 10:41 AM
Greg Hullender QUOTE (djellison @ Jun 10 2007, 11:59 PM)... Jun 11 2007, 02:16 PM
stevesliva QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Jun 11 2007, 10:1... Jun 11 2007, 02:51 PM
cndwrld People have been doing space science for a long ti... Jun 11 2007, 10:53 AM
nprev Hmm. Very good points, Steve, and they seem to har... Jun 12 2007, 03:37 AM
Greg Hullender Helvick: I agree competely about the JWST.
Steve:... Jun 12 2007, 03:38 AM
stevesliva QUOTE (Greg Hullender @ Jun 11 2007, 11:3... Jun 12 2007, 05:08 AM
dvandorn Unfortunately, the tendency towards "there mu... Jun 12 2007, 05:01 PM
gndonald QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 13 2007, 01:01 AM) ... Jun 14 2007, 03:40 PM
nprev True words, DV; definitely food for thought.
The ... Jun 13 2007, 01:32 AM
Littlebit An even broader upscaling of cost is the distribut... Jun 13 2007, 02:39 PM
dvandorn You point out a key factor in understanding how th... Jun 13 2007, 06:07 PM
nprev QUOTE (dvandorn @ Jun 13 2007, 11:07 AM) ... Jun 14 2007, 01:30 AM
Littlebit QUOTE (nprev @ Jun 13 2007, 07:30 PM) Wel... Jun 14 2007, 02:05 PM
dvandorn You make some truly excellent points, Littlebit. ... Jun 14 2007, 02:21 PM
Littlebit While I am on a role, there are two more major cul... Jun 14 2007, 03:55 PM
monitorlizard Maybe space science could benefit from the Air For... Jun 14 2007, 07:33 PM
nprev QUOTE (monitorlizard @ Jun 14 2007, 12:33... Jun 18 2007, 02:46 PM
Littlebit QUOTE (monitorlizard @ Jun 14 2007, 01:33... Jun 18 2007, 07:42 PM
AlexBlackwell QUOTE (Littlebit @ Jun 18 2007, 09:42 AM)... Jun 18 2007, 08:11 PM

stevesliva QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Jun 18 2007, 04:11... Jun 18 2007, 09:42 PM

Littlebit QUOTE (AlexBlackwell @ Jun 18 2007, 02:11... Jun 19 2007, 03:13 PM

nprev QUOTE (Littlebit @ Jun 19 2007, 08:13 AM)... Aug 25 2007, 12:35 AM

stevesliva QUOTE (Littlebit @ Jun 19 2007, 11:13 AM)... Aug 25 2007, 01:38 AM

Jim from NSF.com QUOTE (Littlebit @ Jun 19 2007, 11:13 AM)... Aug 27 2007, 01:05 PM

Jim from NSF.com QUOTE (Littlebit @ Jun 19 2007, 11:13 AM)... Aug 27 2007, 01:08 PM

nprev QUOTE (Jim from NSF.com @ Aug 27 2007, 06... Aug 27 2007, 01:28 PM
JRehling QUOTE (Littlebit @ Jun 18 2007, 12:42 PM)... Sep 5 2007, 03:23 PM
PhilHorzempa Check out Alan Stern's comments in the latest ... Aug 24 2007, 03:59 PM
Jim from NSF.com microgravity doesn't need to be simulated for ... Aug 27 2007, 02:54 PM
remcook "microgravity doesn't need to be simulate... Aug 27 2007, 03:53 PM
djellison Indeed - the ISS is being used as an LDEF platform... Aug 27 2007, 05:07 PM
nprev Thanks, Doug!
Well, the wheel doubtlessly ... Aug 27 2007, 11:14 PM
Rakhir QUOTE (Littlebit @ Jun 18 2007, 07:42 PM)... Sep 5 2007, 03:42 PM
djellison QUOTE (JRehling @ Sep 19 2007, 06:27 PM) ... Sep 19 2007, 05:38 PM
PhilHorzempa I applaud Stern's efforts to get the most out ... Sep 24 2007, 08:41 PM
AscendingNode QUOTE (PhilHorzempa @ Sep 24 2007, 01:41 ... Sep 24 2007, 09:09 PM
PhilHorzempa A recent white paper by Paul Spudis, titled ... Oct 5 2007, 05:00 PM
dvandorn Note how o'Phil neglects to mention that Spudi... Oct 5 2007, 05:25 PM
PhilCo126 Let's be realistic and hope to see a slight in... Oct 5 2007, 06:01 PM
nprev A bit of potential light in this regard: the Senat... Oct 6 2007, 02:28 AM
PhilHorzempa Alan Stern continues to do an excellent job at NAS... Feb 26 2008, 10:53 PM
nprev All I can say is hats off to Alan. I've had to... Feb 27 2008, 01:38 AM
PhilHorzempa I hope that a budget issue regarding future New Fr... Mar 25 2008, 01:54 AM
mps In the same presentation is noted that Juno will c... Mar 25 2008, 12:04 PM
Mariner9 That's a darn good question, and your guess is... Mar 26 2008, 06:06 AM
Stephen Not sure whether this has been mentioned yet but A... Mar 27 2008, 05:58 AM
PhilHorzempa As Alan Stern leaves NASA, I find myself sad. In ... Mar 31 2008, 04:07 AM![]() ![]() |
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