IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

3 Pages V  < 1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Second MSL Landing Site Workshop, October 23-25, 2007
elakdawalla
post Oct 25 2007, 01:15 AM
Post #16


Bloggette par Excellence
****

Group: Admin
Posts: 4434
Joined: 4-August 05
From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth
Member No.: 454



Presentations are being posted here:
http://hirise.seti.org/MSL_Landing_Sites/

At the outset of the meeting, the attendees were told that all presentations would be posted UNLESS speakers specifically requested that they not be. So you know who the "bad guys" are wink.gif

EDIT: Here's a gem from the Watkins and Steltzner engineering constraints presentation (which is a monstrous 25 MB but is packed with interesting info): this image of the backshell was on a slide titled "We are big." No kidding. blink.gif

Attached Image


--Emily


--------------------
My blog - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ustrax
post Oct 25 2007, 08:41 AM
Post #17


Special Cookie
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2168
Joined: 6-April 05
From: Sintra | Portugal
Member No.: 228



The report from the second day of activities is already available at spacEurope.

Looks like there is the the possibility of MSL may be sending our regards to Opportunity personally... wink.gif

"After the layered deposits session, the next talks looked specifically at the region around Meridiani/MER-B (generally because of the possibility for safely landing in this area of Mars. Of particular interest to the audience were sites around the margin of the MER Opportunity stratigraphic stack where evidence for phyllosilicates have been observed. Often the only /geomorphic/ evidence for water having been there are inverted features, however, which makes arguments for clear habitable context difficult. Nonetheless, the votes from the audience seem to suggest to me that at least one of the Meridiani sites is likely to get through ("East Meridiani")."


--------------------
"Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eluchil
post Oct 25 2007, 06:46 PM
Post #18


Junior Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 14-July 06
Member No.: 972



They are big! I just wanted to say thank you very much to Emily for her great coverage of the workshop. I find them fascinating. I remember back to the MER workshops and Nathalie Cabrol's presentation which one me over to Gusev as the best landing site. I can't wait to have a look at the MSL suggestions.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nprev
post Oct 26 2007, 04:50 AM
Post #19


Senior Member
****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 7026
Joined: 8-December 05
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 602



Not sure if I support a Meridiani revisit at this point. Given that we are slowly coming to the realization that Mars may have far more mineralogical complexity than previously thought, seems that MSL's range capability would be best utilized in an area that has as many boundaries between different mineralogical regions as we can find, combined with favorable EDL conditions.

Gotta admit that the possibilty of examing Martian clays is exciting, though; their very existence sets the mind to reeling!


--------------------
A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dvandorn
post Oct 26 2007, 05:33 AM
Post #20


Senior Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3227
Joined: 9-February 04
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Member No.: 15



In my humble opinion, the phyllosilicates are a number one priority. These clays seem to be the only things that preserve traces of a Mars which differs significantly from the current planet.

They may have been formed as early as at the very end of the LHB, but these clays were formed before sulphuric acids began pouring out of the interior and the entire outer surface of the planet was coated with sulphates. This is likely the only period in the history of Mars when conditions were truly favorable for life to develop, and as such are most interesting to me. (It has always seemed to me that we need to study extraterrestrial life before we can truly understand how life actually works. Until then, we're stuck behind assumptions that we can't see beyond.)

There seems to be precious little of this phyllosilicate material exposed on the surface. The question is, was there not much to begin with? Or was it more ubiquitous but now has been covered with lavas and/or coated with basaltic dust cemented together by sulphate salts? Investigations of the clays, and of the contact between them and the surrounding terrains, will go a long way towards painting a picture of very early conditions on Mars.

Now, if Meridiani shows significant clay exposures, I'd be all for landing there. We already know how benign the surface conditions are, and how likely it'll be that we can land MSL there safely. But the more we can place clay exposures into a geologically significant context, the more we learn. I'm not positive how much context we'll be able to derive in such a flat location -- you'd be almost totally dependent on entering medium- to large-sized craters to get your drill holes into the stratigraphy.

I'd rather find places we can land safely and then approach outcrops on cliff faces and hillsides. Seems a little more likely to show us context. Of course, I could be wrong...

-the other Doug


--------------------
“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.” -Mark Twain
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ustrax
post Oct 26 2007, 08:01 AM
Post #21


Special Cookie
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2168
Joined: 6-April 05
From: Sintra | Portugal
Member No.: 228



Here are the final results from the workshop...the selected sites are...:

North:
Nili Fossae Trough
Mawrth
SW Meridiani/Clays
Jezero Crater

South:
Holden Crater
Terby Crater


In Purgatory...:
Eberswalde
NE Syrtis
Chloride Salts
E. Meridiani (Compelling Safe Haven)


--------------------
"Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
djellison
post Oct 26 2007, 09:10 AM
Post #22


Administrator
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 13764
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1



No Gale sad.gif That was my favorite.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ustrax
post Oct 26 2007, 10:24 AM
Post #23


Special Cookie
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2168
Joined: 6-April 05
From: Sintra | Portugal
Member No.: 228



QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 26 2007, 10:10 AM) *
No Gale sad.gif That was my favorite.


All of them were great but I'm very happy that the Nili Fossae Trough made it, and in my opinion, if the engineering constraints doesn't get to rough on it, it is where we'll see MSL making its way... smile.gif

My precious!... blink.gif

EDITED: Doug, Gale got a triple yellow...that was not a very brilliant result... sad.gif
You can see the final classification here.


--------------------
"Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nprev
post Oct 26 2007, 12:17 PM
Post #24


Senior Member
****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 7026
Joined: 8-December 05
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 602



QUOTE (elakdawalla @ Oct 24 2007, 06:15 PM) *
...this image of the backshell was on a slide titled "We are big." No kidding. blink.gif


Good God! blink.gif What sort of booster fairing diameter are we talking for this beast?


--------------------
A few will take this knowledge and use this power of a dream realized as a force for change, an impetus for further discovery to make less ancient dreams real.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
djellison
post Oct 26 2007, 12:35 PM
Post #25


Administrator
****

Group: Chairman
Posts: 13764
Joined: 8-February 04
Member No.: 1



Same as NH iirc, but minus one booster. The 5m Atlas V fairing. (an Atlas V 541 for MSL - 5m fairing, 4 boosters, 1 engine upper stage)

Doug
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ustrax
post Oct 26 2007, 01:38 PM
Post #26


Special Cookie
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2168
Joined: 6-April 05
From: Sintra | Portugal
Member No.: 228



I have available the final report from spacEurope's correspondant at Pasadena...how on Mars was I so lucky to get this guy's precious, and (volunteer!) collaboration?! smile.gif


--------------------
"Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stu
post Oct 26 2007, 03:12 PM
Post #27


The Poet Dude
****

Group: Moderator
Posts: 5548
Joined: 15-March 04
From: Kendal, Cumbria, UK
Member No.: 60



Couple of colourised-strictly-for-fun-not-suggesting-they're-accurate-or-anything sections of that beautiful Nili Fossae Trough image ustrax, to thank you for your excellent work on this discussion for those of us anable to follow it so closely smile.gif

Attached Image


Attached Image


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tglotch
post Oct 26 2007, 04:11 PM
Post #28


Junior Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 50
Joined: 7-July 06
From: Selden, NY
Member No.: 960



From my perspective, the workshop was a tremendous success. Narrowing more than 50 sites down to six was a sometimes painful process, but it was important for the scientific community to do that work so that the folks at the management level can focus on the most scientifically interesting places. The other option was that we give them a much longer list and the safest (and potentially most boring) place would be chosen because of engineering constraints.

A couple of interesting notes based on some previous comments: Each of the final six sites has exhibited the spectral signature of smectite clays in OMEGA or CRISM data (or both), although Nili Fossae Trough and Mawrth Vallis exhibit the deepest spectral features, which may correlate with abundance.

Holden and Terby came very close to not making the final list. They are both very interesting scientifically, but we were told by the engineers that because of their high southern latitudes and cold temperatures that if MSL landed at one of those sites it would have to lie dormant for the first month or so and then operate at only a 30-50% duty cycle. There was a lot of debate about whether the science that could be done at those sites outweighs those limitations. In the end it was a close vote, but both were kept on the final list.

The SW Meridiani site is very different from the MER B site at Meridiani Planum. It has been interpreted as a paleocrater lake and contains the spectral signature of smectite clays in visible/near-IR data. In addition, the TES and THEMIS data exhibit spectral character consistent with the presence of chloride salts.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
elakdawalla
post Oct 26 2007, 05:46 PM
Post #29


Bloggette par Excellence
****

Group: Admin
Posts: 4434
Joined: 4-August 05
From: Pasadena, CA, USA, Earth
Member No.: 454



Tim, one thing I wasn't clear on at the workshop was what the time frame over which MSL would have the 30% to 50% duty cycle. At some times it seemed they were talking about lengthy hibernation (several months of inactivity), at other times it seemed they were talking about limited operations within a sol (needing to allow time for the rover to warm up, like a lizard in the sun as one person put it). Which one was it, or was it both?

--Emily


--------------------
My blog - @elakdawalla on Twitter - Please support unmannedspaceflight.com by donating here.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ustrax
post Oct 26 2007, 09:07 PM
Post #30


Special Cookie
****

Group: Members
Posts: 2168
Joined: 6-April 05
From: Sintra | Portugal
Member No.: 228



QUOTE (Stu @ Oct 26 2007, 04:12 PM) *
Couple of colourised-strictly-for-fun-not-suggesting-they're-accurate-or-anything sections of that beautiful Nili Fossae Trough image ustrax, to thank you for your excellent work on this discussion for those of us anable to follow it so closely smile.gif


You are welcome Stu, if it was stressful for me to manage all the incoming information I can't imagine what must have been for those guys at Pasadena... huh.gif
My correspondent, Researcher X, must be a very happy and tired man by now, he has reasons for that...
There will be more next week...now it is time to have a rest and enjoy the weekend... cool.gif

Just a request...mind if I use your images in a future occasion?...These can really drive your imagination... smile.gif


--------------------
"Ride, boldly ride," The shade replied, "If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Alan Poe
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V  < 1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 22nd September 2014 - 10:15 AM
RULES AND GUIDELINES
Please read the Forum Rules and Guidelines before posting.

IMAGE COPYRIGHT
Images posted on UnmannedSpaceflight.com may be copyrighted. Do not reproduce without permission. Read here for further information on space images and copyright.

OPINIONS AND MODERATION
Opinions expressed on UnmannedSpaceflight.com are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of UnmannedSpaceflight.com or The Planetary Society. The all-volunteer UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderation team is wholly independent of The Planetary Society. The Planetary Society has no influence over decisions made by the UnmannedSpaceflight.com moderators.
SUPPORT THE FORUM
Unmannedspaceflight.com is a project of the Planetary Society and is funded by donations from visitors and members. Help keep this forum up and running by contributing here.