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ATV un-manned supply ship, JulesVerne - ESA's AutoTransferVehicle
GravityWaves
post Feb 22 2008, 09:07 PM
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Jules Verne ATV Launch Approaching
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80211120639.htm
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nprev
post Feb 28 2008, 08:02 PM
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Yeah, I'm kind of pumped about it! smile.gif Just out of curiosity, is ESA considering follow-on versions that might conceivably be crew-rated? (Guess that the Ariane V would also have to achieve this as well).


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Guest_PhilCo126_*
post Feb 28 2008, 08:13 PM
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Didn't hear (yet) about any crew-rated versions wink.gif
http://www.esa.int/esaMI/ATV/ESAE021VMOC_0.html
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post Feb 28 2008, 10:08 PM
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You know somebody's gotta be thinking about it, though. Hopefully after they get a few flights under their belt, they'll press on with the idea.

I'm not entirely comfortable with the fact that the ISS will have to rely solely on Soyuz for a substantial period until Orion is available (I just hate single-point vulnerabilities, is all). Jules Verne is clearly much closer to becoming a crew-rated vehicle, plus I'd love to see ESA take the plunge into manned spaceflight.


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Adam
post Feb 29 2008, 04:10 PM
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I remember reading somewhere that ESA had considered it but decided to try to cooperate with the russians instead of building a spacecraft of their own. I'm not sure where I read it though, was quite some time ago so I could be wrong.
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post Feb 29 2008, 04:18 PM
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I'm betting that they want to establish a sound performance record with the unmanned version before pressing on with any other applications, which would be a very prudent, even conservative developmental strategy. IMHO, it's damn near irresistable to possess a pressurized space vehicle and not consider going all the way...

One fly in the ointment might be the level of effort needed to man-rate Ariane. IIRC, Jim from NSF.com stated awhile back that not even the Shuttle has ever truly achieved this, being allowed to fly on a series of engineering waivers. All that said, though, I'm sure that different agencies have different procedures & criteria.


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jamescanvin
post Feb 29 2008, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 29 2008, 04:18 PM) *
One fly in the ointment might be the level of effort needed to man-rate Ariane.


IIRC Ariane 5 was initially was developed as a man-rated launch system to carry Hermes. So if you we ever going to man rate an existing rocket, Ariane 5 is probably easier than most.


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ustrax
post Feb 29 2008, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 28 2008, 08:02 PM) *
Yeah, I'm kind of pumped about it! smile.gif Just out of curiosity, is ESA considering follow-on versions that might conceivably be crew-rated? (Guess that the Ariane V would also have to achieve this as well).


Crew-rated maybe not so soon but, according to John Ellwood, the developed technology for the automatic rendezvous and docking techniques, is an important contribute for a future sample return mission from Mars... smile.gif


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post Feb 29 2008, 05:35 PM
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Nice interview, Rui! smile.gif

Hmm...I dunno...Mr. Elwood sure used the word "manned" a lot, and pointed out that JV was designed to two-fault tolerance specs...definitely getting a vibe, here... wink.gif


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ustrax
post Feb 29 2008, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 29 2008, 05:35 PM) *
Nice interview, Rui! smile.gif

Hmm...I dunno...Mr. Elwood sure used the word "manned" a lot, and pointed out that JV was designed to two-fault tolerance specs...definitely getting a vibe, here... wink.gif


Not an interview Nicholas, Ellwood made all the work... wink.gif
Aren't you reading what you want to read? tongue.gif
But I too trust vibes...this will be faster than we think... biggrin.gif


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post Feb 29 2008, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE (ustrax @ Feb 29 2008, 09:53 AM) *
Not an interview Nicholas, Ellwood made all the work... wink.gif
Aren't you reading what you want to read? tongue.gif


Nice work nonetheless, and, yeah... smile.gif ...in addition to vibes, I also believe in buzz!


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Guest_PhilCo126_*
post Feb 29 2008, 06:08 PM
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Just imagine an escape tower ontop of such an ATV wink.gif
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post Feb 29 2008, 06:34 PM
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It's a bit flat, isn't it? Gotta imagine that there's some sort of an aerodynamic front fairing, though; you could put a tower on easy enough.

What might be a bit more difficult is putting a heat shield on the reentry module (and beefing up the front end for reentry stress as well, probably also the ACS for deorbiting with extra mass unless you want to add an independent retro system).


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dvandorn
post Mar 1 2008, 03:51 AM
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JV strikes me as somewhat overengineered for a disposable one-flight vehicle, and somewhat underengineered for a prototype of a recoverable manned spacecraft.

It's a good foundation for the development of a manned vehicle -- but there are quite a few changes you'd want to make before adding a crew, I think.

-the other Doug


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ustrax
post Mar 1 2008, 05:46 PM
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QUOTE (nprev @ Feb 29 2008, 06:07 PM) *
Nice work nonetheless, and, yeah... smile.gif ...in addition to vibes, I also believe in buzz!


You want buzz?...
Let me give you the closing words of Alain Thirkettle, ESA ISS Programme Manager, in his testimony to spacEurope, to be published Monday...:
"...the necessary capabilities for elements of future human exploration transportation and living/working accommodation are available to Europe, and thus both ATV and Columbus are a crucial building blocks for the future plans of the Agency."

What are these future plans Nicholas?... smile.gif

(did you get my e-mail?...)

EDITED: Launch has been delayed 24 hours due to potential problem identified with the fitting of the grounding straps located in the separation system.


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